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November 18, 2004

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Robert Ragan

Okay, true enough Richard, but let's make sure that we know the FULL story here:

The American College of Heraldry was mentioned as a source, so I went to have a look. You should too. At-- http://www.americancollegeofheraldry.org/

Read these few paragraphs from the introduction found on their site:

"Heraldry is at once both an art and a science. Its origins are rooted in the social and political structure which existed in Europe and the British Isles from about the year 1100 A.D. However, far from being an obsolete relic of a bygone era, heraldry has rather emerged as a vibrant and growing cultural form. Legitimate coats of arms are more widely used throughout the world today than ever before in history.

A large and rapidly growing number of Americans rightfully bear coats of arms. Many of these were granted, certified, registered or otherwise recognized by armorial authorities abroad, and a sizable number of these have been registered by their owners with The American College of Heraldry. In addition, the College has assisted many persons in designing a new coat of arms for their use which is then properly registered and published. An increasing number of corporate bodies have also acquired coats of arms which they display on armorial flags and in place of the less distinctive logo which is so rapidly outdated in terms of artistic style and structure."

Did you get it? This organization will register you for a FEE, they will CREATE NEW coat of arms for companies, etc. This is a BUSINESS! Got it? Here is one of the top questions asked on their FAQ page:

"QUESTION: There isn't any OFFICIAL United States Government agency for registering arms in the United States. Who do you people think you are?"

"ANSWER: You cannot imagine the frequency with which this question arises, largely from individuals who have not spent the time to learn exactly what The American College of Heraldry does. We are not now, nor ever claimed to be, a GRANTING authority for arms. The College merely serves as a repository for those wishing to REGISTER their arms with an organization dedicated to preserving that heritage. Further, our goal is to aid those who wish to establish their own heraldic tradition create and register new arms. We have also assisted individuals in both creating new arms and having said arms registered with other international heraldic entities, such as the Court of Lord Lyon, The College of Arms, The Cronista Rey de Armas of the Kingdom of Spain, and the Collegium Heraldicum Russiae to name a few."

I just want to make sure that you know that there are organizations and businesses that work with Heraldry, Coat or Arms, Family Crests, etc. as a business...and I think it is wonderful.

I'll tell you why...

The REAL TRUTH...

This stuff is popular and is selling like crazy! People want their Family Coat of Arms, I want MY Family Coat of Arms and yes...even if you don't, there are people in your family who want their Family Coat of Arms...

EVEN IF they are not authentic!

Is that so bad? I don't think it is, especially if it gets my family excited about genealogy. I need all the help I can get!

Robert Ragan

Dick Eastman

I think you have pointed out exactly the big difference between the American College of Heraldry versus the folks who sell the junk at the local shopping malls and elsewhere. The American College of Heraldry never claims that any FAMILY has a coat of arms. They know better. They carefully state exactly what they are selling. I am not a big fan of their products but I will admit that their carefully-worded claims are accurate.

The folks who sell in pushcarts at the malls, online and in many other areas claims to sell your AUTHENTIC family coat of arms.

Balderdash!

Delores C Jones

Thank you for this information. I am one of those who bought into the "coat of arms" deals.
My cousin also has one of our mother's family and it is somewhat different from mine. Now, I know why. I doubt that I will take it off the wall and the rest of the family thinks its nice and don't care if it is authorized or not.
Thank you again for this information. I will see about authorization, though.
Delores C Jones

Gordon Banks

If you are an American, why not design your own coat of arms? No one says you can't and you don't have to pay anyone. Courtesy would dictate that you don't copy one that has been used by others in the past. Of course this would require some study of heraldry, but so what? It might be interesting.

If you are British, this option is not open to you, but if you are a person of "good character", the King of Arms will design one for you that you can use legally in the UK (for a price, of course).

I myself haven't adopted any arms because it seems silly to me for someone who isn't a knight and doesn't have a shield to have arms. Just as silly for town and colleges, etc. to have them, but historically, it was not silly at all for a warrior in armor to have a shield painted in such a way that he could be recognized in battle, which is what the arms were for in the first place.

Anne

I'm confused! If ownership of a coat of arms belongs to one individual, does that mean that only one descendant at a time can own/use the coat of arms as a lineal descendant of a Briton? Or could my various cousins who qualify all use it, having properly registered with the UK College of Arms?

Dick Eastman

In England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, only one individual may use a particular coat of arms at any one time. The coat of arms is never, ever authorized for all descendants, despite the claims of the various vendors who sell this stuff in malls and on the Web.

I am told that when you look at various countries on the European continent there are some differences. I am not familiar with all the details but am under the impression that the rules are loosely similar in western Europe but with some differences. As you move to eastern Europe, I am told that the rules change a lot but I do not know all the details.

- Dick Eastman

Dino (All DIno, All the Time)

Dick, in Great Britain sons can use the father's coat of arms IF they differentiate it with some device, such as a virgule, chevron, etc. This then has to be registered.

Dick Eastman

Dino, your statement agrees with every authoritative article that I have read on the topic. However, that coat of arms still is different and it is registered by itself for use by one person, not an entire family. While it may only be slightly different, it still qualifies for my earlier statement of "only one individual may use a particular coat of arms at any one time. The coat of arms is never, ever authorized for all descendants..."

Richard Cottrell

Please be fair about judging that which is a service for genealogy.

The American College of Heraldrys carefully-worded claims about their service isn't any different than DNA testing companies carefully-worded claims about the service they provide for genealogy.

It doesn't seem right to criticize a coat of arms company about their carefully-worded claims but exonerate dna testing companies about their carefully-worded claims.

Paul N

I am seeking information about may families coat of arms.

niedzielski,frytz,fritz

Clare decourcy

This usuage of something they are not entitled to is simply 'Wannabe's" or ego seeking. Why not be yourselves instead of jumping on to the bandwagon of awards that they most certainly are not entitled to.

I find that people who make all these claims to fame unproven in many many cases may find they are descended from some very interesting people if only they would do proper research and not rely on nonsense that companies etc are making a lot of money out of their need to be connected to someone famous, or Royal.

More than half of these do not even know who their great grandparents were but yet make claims to goodness knows who in history. This is not genealogy, this is name collecting .

Laura J

Ah, Dick...

Now what does "use" mean? All these vendors and their customers are doing is selling and placing a memento on their wall, on their key chain, on a shirt, or what have you. They are not "using" a coat of arms to receive any type of royalty treatment, discounts at the movie theater, to obtain a date, or to say they are someone special. They are proud of their last name and they are proud of their family heritage ... period. The certificates they receive don't tell them they personally did something to earn a coat a arms, but someone with that last name has.
What about the ancestory seminars? People also have the option to spend a lot of money attending genealogical conferences, and buying the books the vendors sell to find out every bit of detail on their family line. These customers and vendors are looking at the family name/crest as a whole for the name itself, not the individual. Not everyone wants to delve into geneology, Dick. Are you afraid these small vendors are encouraging their customers to settle with just their family name and possibly a crest that belonged to an ancestor and not spend more money on digging deeper into their past? Get over yourself, Dick, not everyone has time or the money to get involved with geneology.

Pat

OK, Dick. I realize that there is no such thing as a "Family Coat of Arms", nevertheless, there are those of us who are proud of our heritage and would love to display a symbol of said heritage. But, exactly how does one find out exactly which ancestor was granted a Coat of Arms? I mean, without paying a fortune to some "official" agency. Yes, I have seen the fees charged by the College of Arms. One line of my heritage is the O'Sullivan Beare line, historically significant, and I have no problem with displaying a coat of arms or crest belonging to them. OH! I forgot, I'm Female, and have no right to do that! Tough.
The line is through my maternal grandfather, another drawback. But, so what? Since I seem to be one of only two or three in my family who has been willing to put in the time and effort to even try to research our heritage, (at least in my generation), I think I'll reward myself. And a couple of cousins, who also care.
So, anyway, how do I find out that information?
Also, I believe that two other lines in my family bore arms, from England and Scotland. I was told all this long before the internet, and before all the hype, (like 40 or 50 years ago).
I am in the US, and many of my ancestors have been here since the 1700's and 1800's. Many even earlier.
I would like to know that the Coat of Arms are correct for my particular lines.
Is there any way you can help me togo in the right direction?

Dick Eastman

---> So, anyway, how do I find out that information? Also, I believe that two other lines in my family bore arms, from England and Scotland. I was told all this long before the internet, and before all the hype, (like 40 or 50 years ago).

It is doubtful if your "family bore arms." Families never bear arms. Arms are always issued to individuals, not to families. If there are five brothers, they each may apply for their own arms and the five use five different coats of arms. They do not share the same one.

As stated in the article, "The American College of Heraldry also says, "It is highly inappropriate for one to locate the arms of another person sharing the same surname, and to simply adopt and use these arms as one's own." My interpretation of this is that, if you are displaying an unauthorized coat of arms, you are impersonating someone else."

In short, the custom is that nobody should ever use a coat of arms unless they have been permission (in writing) to display it by the heralds in the appropriate country. Admittedly, that is a CUSTOM, not a law (at least it is not a law in the U.S. I am told there are laws governing heraldry in some other countries.)

If you wish to display a coat of arms (in the U.S.) that were issued to some other person with the same surname as yours, you are free to do so. There are no laws about it but most people who study heraldry will tell you that it is rather impolite to do so.

The correct way is to first obtain permission in writing from the heralds before displaying any coat of arms.

- Dick Eastman

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