Recording Longitudes and Latitudes

Genealogists have always been taught to record our sources of information. We not only record the name of the book or other source of genealogy information, but we also record the location of the building (repository) where we found it. Typically we record the building's name, street address, city and state.

With today's technology, shouldn't we also be recording the geographic coordinates? With GPS receivers and the plethora of high-quality on-line maps, it is now easy to find the exact latitude and longitude of any address. Unlike street names, the longitude and latitude will never change.

I have written about finding cemeteries and other locations of genealogical interest by using GPS receivers. Shouldn't we be recording the exact latitude and longitudes of those cemeteries into our genealogy databases? Perhaps the cemetery's location alone isn't enough. Should we record the exact location of the ancestor's tombstone.

How about the location of great-great-grandfather's farm? I believe the latitude and longitude of that farm would be a valuable entry in your database so that future genealogists who have access to your data can find that farm's location, even if it has since become covered with weeds or perhaps become a high-rise apartment building. In short, I think we should record the geographic coordinates of every location in our genealogy databases.

You can enter the latitude and longitude of any location as a text note into most any modern genealogy program. However, several of the better genealogy programs have specific database fields for these coordinates.

If you own a GPS receiver, the next time you visit an ancestral site of any sort, you should record its geographic coordinates into your database. You can also find similar information by consulting topographic maps.

Comments

[theKiwi]

Here's an example of how this can be used...

http://roger.lisaandroger.com/getperson.php?personID=I16&tree=Roger

The Admin section of TNG (The Next Generation of Genealogy Site Building) has maps on which you can click to find the place you want and have the latitude and longitude captured into the database from your mouse click

Cheers

Roger

[Seattle]

I too am a big techie and love my GPS but as I am still somewhat new to genealogy, I dont understand the value of documenting my sources that quickly... isnt a street address a more easily understood and universally used way to store a pointer to the location of an object?

[Dick Eastman]

---> isnt a street address a more easily understood and universally used way to store a pointer to the location of an object?

Yes, but it is less permanent. Over the next 100 years or so, who knows what will happen to that street? Will new highways be put in? Will the street be moved? Will the street be renamed? Will the house numbers be changed? All those are common occurrences. Many streets existed 100 years ago but are no longer on any modern map.

If you want to preserve your data and have it used by future genealogists, it is best to use the one standard that doesn't seem to change: longitudes and latitudes. Admittedly, there is no guarantee that the system of measuring geographical coordinates might change in the future but it strikes me as a lower risk than using street names.

- Dick Eastman

[Ken Coit]

Great idea! I immediately thought I could Google some addresses and find the coordinates, but then realized that some street address location are shown very roughly on most on-line maps. Better to use the satellite view and confirm the physical location before recording the coordinates. Topographic maps will provide accurate information to a point, but be aware that the GPS system, charts and maps use several coordinate systems, so if you are looking for the ultimate position accuracy, you should also record the coordinate system used. WGS-84 is probably a good choice: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/CORS/Articles/Reference-Systems-Part-3.pdf

[Richard Cleaveland]

Dick, I think you should mention one of the greatest free sources of lat/long: Google Earth. Just zoom in to the site, place your cursor over the grave location and copy down the lat/long from the screen. For example, one of my ancestor's stone is at 41 38'45.48''N 85 07'54.13''W (degrees, seconds, minutes, using Google's notation). You can copy/paste that in the search area to locate the stone. Not all locations are so detailed that one can pick out gravestones, but this one, with many of my ancestors buried in, is.

For those who suggested using street addresses - I have found that some of them slide into obscurity over the years, what with redevelopment and street renaming and numbering

[Trevor]

Not only do streets slide into obscurity, but cities and even countries cease to exist centuries later. Where exactly is Prussia now? GPS coordinates would be much more effective.

In addition, few software programs do an effective job of tracking the same location names (alternate spellings, abbreviations, and even errors). Missing this, it's very hard to accurately create maps and find events geographically. GPS coordinates solve this problem as well.

Of course it's also important to still include the local name as well. Computers like numbers, but we humans still prefer to read text.

[Michael Fearn]

If the location is a UK one, I would find the Ordnance Survey Grid Reference to be an easier reference to work with than a lat/long reference. GPS receivers I have used have usually been configured to work with OS Grid References, plus I am used to the References whilst reading Explorer or Pathfinder maps or online at http://www.multimap.com/ or at http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/
e.g SK 252 228 can be used for a 100 metre square and more digits can be used for 10 m or 1 m accuracy.

[Seattle]

After thinking over this article and Dick's response to my question last night, I am now thoroughly convinced that GPS coordinates are the way to go. I am very impressed with that sample page using TNG. My site is currently built using Phpgedview which I love because it is open source, but that sample page is so clear, especially with the Google Maps plug-in that I am seriously considering making a change :-)

Its too bad, 2 weeks ago I went on a trip to take some gravestone pics, and I had my GPS with me... now I am wishing I had kept some coordinates in a log!!!

Thanks for the helpful hints, gang...

Jon

[larry simonsen]

What if the library moves buildings. I know of 3 addresses for the Provo public library over the past 30 years. I know that the BYU library has moved buildings at last 3 times in the past 35 years.

[Russell]

I agree that if you record lat/lon that you need to record the coordinate system as well. There are different ones, some of them significantly different. WGS-84 is the common one for GPS units.

It would also be wise to notate that it's a GPS unit and approximately when it was taken. At some time in the future, we may have far more accurate GPS units and people will have to come the EOGN to find out that GPS units in our day only had an accuracy of 6-15 feet and not 6-15 inches that our children may be used to.

Also, it's a good point that some archives may change physical locations but maintain the same records.

[Andy E. Wold]

Street addresses are NOT the best way to record a location. As an example, here in Salt Lake City, Utah about 70 years ago every street with a North address was moved one block north (500 North became 600 North, etc.) and every street with a West address was moved one block west. So, if you went to the northwest side of town to look up an old address of a relative, you'd be standing a block south and a block east of where your ancestor actually lived -- looking at the wrong house.

Street names change throughout time, GPS coordinates do not. Most residents of Salt Lake City have no idea where what was once called "East Temple Street", which is today called Main Street, one of our main streets (of course.) An entire development on the south end of the county was set up with the "wrong" house numbers because the creators weren't familiar with Utah's house numbering system. Everyone in that community has the house address of their neighbor across the street.

Yes, do use GPS coordinates, but don't use area-specific flavors (such as degrees, minutes and seconds, or Ordinance Survey coordinates, or UTM) a simple decimal system is workable worldwide.

[Melissa]

After receiving a copy of Map My Family Tree this past Christmas I was excited that I was going to be able map my family migrations over the generations. It turned out to be a disappointment. Older generations were not mapped because the only information I have about their whereabouts is a county within a state with the most specific location data being a certain river or other landmark stated in the deed. Not to mention the ability to see that even though an ancestor is listed in different counties over time, he was actually in the same location but the counties were evolving as the state grew. If I were to record the GPS location of each segment of land purchased, then I could see the exact location where they lived. Or maybe I just haven't mastered the software yet?

[Charles Beal]

Being a Professional Land Surveyor for the State of CA, I recently documented 790 Civil War Veteran graves(Union and Confederate)in Orange County, CA. Using GPS and a survey Total Station instrument my results are +/- 1.00 feet for each grave. I am publishing a DVD of my project to the 9 local cemeteries and local historical societies. I mapped the grave locations on aerial photographs for each cemetery, determined the latitude and longitude and took a digital photograph of each grave. I also published my GPS coordinates and grave photos on http://www.findagrave.com.

[Joanne Skelton]

I am curious about using latitude and longitude for family farms, which may have 40 or 400 acres. If the GPS is accurate with a few feet, what point is used for the listing?

[theKiwi]

I would put the marker as close to on the farm house as I can figure, unless I know for sure that the person lived somewhere else on the farm - and there are cases where I've been to and seen the bothy where it's likely that they lived. But then it wasn't more than 100 yards from the farm house in any case.

[Mike Miinch]

brainygeography.com has USA GPS Location data listed by State & Feature such as Cemetery, Church, Hospital, etc

[Charles Beal]

My Civil War Veteran graves of Orange County, California (790 graves) data and photographs have been posted at the Santa Ana Historical Preservation Society web site at:

http://www.santaanahistory.com/civil-war.html

One of my professional land surveying magazines also published an article about my project in the May edition of "Point of Beginning". You can read the more technical written article at:

http://www.pobonline.com/CDA/Articles/Features/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000095036

See the above post I left on March 21, 2007 explaining my project.

Charles Beal