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November 23, 2007

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David Watkin

Sounds interesting but they're a little too late to the market. With Google and Zoho already in the business, I don't see much future for another competitor.

It should also be interesting to see if they get sued for blatantly violating Microsoft's trademarks. Notice the name "Live Documents", clearly designed to cause confusion with Microsoft's Live brand of online services, which includes Microsoft Office Live. And their tagline proclaiming, "The future of Office. Today". By capitalizing "Office", they are again using a trademarked name to market their product

Jason Presley

I can't speak for everyone, but occasionally, my internet connection goes down. Both at home and at work. These free internet apps will be extremely useful, but at the same time, by virtue of their requiring an active internet connection, their use is limited. I think OpenOffice is still a much bigger challenge to Microsoft than any online service can be.

Spencer

Why not use StarOffice from Google or OpenOffice at www.openoffice.org(basically the same set of programs). You don't have to be online.

BIll Bienia

In addition to the lack of reliable internet connections away from major cities, and even in major cities, power outages can disrupt internet service, there is the issue of road warrior access. Unless you are at a location that offers some sort of wireless access, you are out of luck.

Another aspect not indicated is what happens when a new version causes problems. I wait a while before updating any new version. If I do, I have a backup I can restore to get back to an sane and working version. With an online service, you are at the mercy of their quality control, and quality control in the software industry is still not to where it should be for relaibility and bug-free software.

I'll stick with an application that I have available on my laptop, no matter what is happening to the internet connections around me, and that I can always back out any update that causes problems.

Dick Eastman

----> Why not use StarOffice from Google or OpenOffice at www.openoffice.org(basically the same set of programs)?

Ther are several advantages and disadvantages to each. Live Documents or any other online-based office suite allows for easy document sharing and collaboration. These services are much better for group collaborations than any program that only saves files to the user's local hard drive.

In addition, Live Documents reportedly has all the features of Word 2007. I say "reportedly" as I haven't seen it yet. I am still waiting for my invitation. However, if that statement is true, that will mean that Live Documents is more powerful and has more features than Open Office or Star Office. (However, I suspect I will continue to use NeoOffice, a Macintosh version of the OpenOffice word processor.)

- Dick Eastman

Marjorie

Even though I used to use Word (published my MA in it), and PageMaker since version 3 (miss it!), I find myself using TextEdit for almost every word processing need.

Text Edit is simple, fast and efficient. I have Pages when I want to prettify something. Google Docs is fine, too, but I use that for sharing. Rootsweb is for saving genealogy docs.

One advantage of a web-based text editor is the platform-laundering that occurs. I can send myself a PC-based file, laundered through Google Docs, and receive a perfect text file for my Mac at home. Even though my Mac _can_ run Windows... why bother! :)

Happy Dae

TextEdit is fine, but not for math, graphics or presentations...let alone a database! Still, if all you publish is your MA, I guess it'll do. J/K Marjorie.

What I'm interested in is the "more powerful and ... more features than Open Office," since that is the free, open architecture suite that I use. Yes, I know there isn't a database there, either. I still use the dead-but-not-buried Microsoft Visual FoxPro. It sure beats others I've tried.

Happy Dae.
http://www.ShoeStringGenealogy.com/ssg1.htm

Heidi Good

Aren't there any privacy concerns with all your documents being stored on someone else's huge server??? I already don't use gmail much because of that issue.

Suzie Henderson

I certainly will check out "Live Documents" and hope to find it less buggy than both Googledocs and Zoho. Most of my experience with these two had been with spreadsheets. Neither seem to be able to handle the large documents I need in order to transcribe complete cemeteries.

I would like to draw attention to one feature of Zoho spreadsheets that was added at my request. One of their date formats is now designed specifically for genealogists. We can input 7 Jun 1859 or 7 Jun 1959 and they will both be treated as DATES. They will not reformat themselves to be the confusing 7-June-57 as they do in Excel or Googledocs.

A copy/paste from Excel can confuse the dates function but an import from Excel brings them into Zoho Sheets and the dates convert correctly. You might, however, keep your eyes out for dates between 2008 and 2030 as this date range is sometimes misinterpreted from dates between 1908 and 1930. There appears to be no problem after 1930.

This date feature has been a major time saver for me in converting dates for the final text version of a cemetery transcription to be included in my GenWeb site. Previously, most dates had to be reentered as text to retain the genealogical date format. Although there is no tab delimited export to text, a simple copy/paste to a text document takes care of that function.

Until Zoho gets some of its other bugs worked out, I'll either stick with the dreaded Microsoft or pray that "Live Documents" is less buggy for my initial layout... but the final version of my cemeteries will come straight out of Zoho!

Thanks for keeping us up to date on these new releases, Dick.

Dick Cleaveland

I have several applications that are based in MS Access. Open Office doesn't have an equivalent capability in that Visual Basic is not supported, nor does it have any corresponding capability. I would like to share operation on one or more of these databases with others who find that Access (e.g. Office) is too expensive for their tastes.

Does "live documents" have any of the same features as Access? Given the title, I suspect not.

Dick

Tom J. Thiel

Dick

I would have expected a bit more objectivity from EOL; your report seems all on the plus side and offers no pre-cautions. Like one of the other commentators, I too want to raise a red flag; "Do you want all your stuff on somebody else's server, where who knows what will be done with it?" I don't. I want my stuff under my direct control. And at 100MB for storage, free is for hobbyists, not for serious work. I have no intention of even looking at this product.

Keep "TINSTAAFL" in mind all times, Dick. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Mr. Bhatia has to eat too!

And why join the anti-Microsoft cry-babies? Even at $400, Office 2007 is one of the greatest bargains you can get today. Think of the functionality it provides one on their own PC.

What will happen when these so-called free software packages become so successful that commercial software companies no longer exist; do you think it will be free then? Don't promise free when it really isn't.

Tom Thiel

Dick Eastman

Hi Tom, I think I could write a book in reply to your message. However, I'll simply comment on a few points:

---> your report seems all on the plus side and offers no pre-cautions.

I think I gave a strong precaution when I wrote, "I hope to try Live Documents once I receive my invitation as the promise is great. If this new product lives up to its claims and is really as good as Microsoft Office 2007, it could become a great success. However, I'll believe those claims when I see the program in operation, not until then."

---> "Do you want all your stuff on somebody else's server, where who knows what will be done with it?"

Yes. And, in fact, I prefer that. A proper web server managed by data processing professionals is far more secure than an individual computer that is hooked to an always-on broadband connection. Even dial-up connections are somewhat vulnerable. Hopefully, everyone uses hardware firewalls. If not, they should use at least a software firewall (which I will never trust). Sadly, many people use neither. Hacking into a home PC is usually much easier than hacking into a properly installed server in a commercial data center that is properly equipped with hardware firewalls and other state-of-the-art security hardware and software. (I have a few thousand hours' experience working in data centers so perhaps I am a bit biased.)

---> Even at $400, Office 2007 is one of the greatest bargains you can get today.

Until it is compared with competitive products from WordPerfect (typically $150), Apple (less than $100) and the many free word processors. To be sure, Microsoft Office is the most powerful such program available today and should command a premium price. But $400???

I believe competition is a healthy thing and that everyone benefits when competitors try to offer better or similar features at a competitive price. I hope that Microsoft and all other software producers always have lots of competitors. We all benefit if they do. in fact, Microsoft itself benefits when competitors keep them on their toes.

I hope that Live Documents turns out to be a great product. I am still waiting for my invitation so I still say, "I'll believe those claims when I see the program in operation, not until then." Let's hope it turns out to be good.

- Dick Eastman


Kenneth Lary

“By 2010, people will not be buying software."

And by 1980 businesses will not be using COBOL because it will be outdated (off by 27 years and counting) and by 2000 no one will pay for phone calls since they can make them over the Internet and bandwidth there will be free.

These are all nice dreams, but I fully expect to walk into Best Buy in 2010 and see boxes of software on the shelves for people to buy.

Jim Agnew

Under the current Fascist Regime here in the USA, I do not feel comfortable creating and storing information that is under someone else's control. The powers that be have already compromised the phone system - every call you make runs through the CIA computers now. There is nothing to stop them from rifling through all your documents on this server. I'll stick with my own computer programs and PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), thanks.

Mark Tucker

There is something to watch out for - an intellectual property lawsuit by Microsoft against Live Documents because it mimics the Office 2007 user interface. As a software developer, I have looked into using the new Office 2007 UI and know that Microsoft claims it as intellectual property. Although a company can freely use the "look", they need to follow certain guidelines one of which is that they will not make a competitor Office product. Sabeer Bhatia is the first that I know of that is challenging this head on. Maybe his intention is to "free" the Office 2007 UI from Microsoft's restrictions. It might be more likely that he is positioning Live Documents in such a way that Microsoft can't ignore it and may be more willing to buy it.

This site talks about the Office UI Licensing
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/office/aa973809.aspx

Mark Tucker
www.thinkgenealogy.com

Robert Kehrer

Re: an intellectual property lawsuit by Microsoft

This may actually turn out to be a bit of profound irony. Microsoft won a very well known lawsuit against Apple a while back on this topic. It seems MS appropriated many key elements of the original Mac OS look and feel. Apple said "Stop - that's our UI" MS said we don't think a UI is patentable. The judge sided with MS.

I believe Mr. Bahatia is expecting to be protected by that significant ruling. It will be fun to watch and see if the tables turn equally.

As far as replicating MS Office functionality. That seems to have already been largely settled. All the office suites mentioned in the above posts replicate much of the MS OFfice functionality and read and write MS Office file formats - ODIF and OpenDocument will assure that continues into the future.

Harshad

i wont simple way to download live documents

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