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March 02, 2008

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Jason Presley

Not to mention that if you don't happen to print anything for a month, you don't have to worry about that laser printer toner drying out. It's already dust.

Irvin LeClear

This has been an ancient practice. I remember a company that almost gave the navy their printing equipment but the cost for supplies and parts was near a sin. Does anyone know printers do not come with full cartridges. I think earlier cartridges were 30 dollars or more. What to do?????

Rob Mack

You can buy cheap no-name ink cartridges on eBay. I have used them for years. As long as you are not printing photos for competition use, they are great. The colors are quite close to the Epson ones. And they are cheap. Much less than $5 each. So what if they stuff up your printer in 5 years time. With the money you have saved, you can buy a dozen new printers!

Ray Marshall

My printer died on me several years ago. I make very few copies and almost never do I need color copies.

What I am currently doing is sending copies of what I want to print to myself on my gmail account and going to my public library to print my copies for five cents each.

Peter Bridge

Not to mention that laser printers are made for heavy duty use in offices and thus tend to be more robust. Also, models do not become obsolete as quickly.

Andrew Kohut

Another scam these companies pull is that they region code both ink cartridges and laser toner. I purchased a new & relatively expensive HP colour all-in-one and a Lexmark laser prior to accepting an overseas posting with work and when my cartidges and tones expired (coincidentally around the same time), I was able to easily purchase replacements as my printers are international models sold worldwide.
The problem was that the replacement toner and ink cartidges wouldn't work as they were region coded! Whilst HP customer service tried to assist with re-regionalising the printer (which I couldn't get to work), Lexmark told me to go & buy a new printer!
Caveat emptor!

Linda Johnston

I've been buying inkjet cartridges from Print Pal, a company in OR, for years. Their black cartridges, for my Epson printer, cost $5.95 each. Then, there's a coupon on the site for 10% off, bringing the cost down further. The shipping is FREE, too. When I've had a printer "die" due to much abuse, when I'm working on census pages, they will even allow you to return any unused cartridges and will replace them with the proper ones for a new printer. My current printer (Epson Stylus Photo 825) is now on its second computer, so it suffers no ill effect from the "secondary market" cartridges.

One caveat, though. I do NOT recommend their color cartridges. I've tried them, several times and find that the color is horrible on photos and even color printing on regular paper. So, I "bite the bullet" and order regular Epson color cartridges from Office Depot, when they are having a sale. I keep my printer set for "black only" when doing anything except for when color is necessary. That way, I'm not using up that color cartridge very fast.

Julie

I've been using refills from Cartridge World for the past year and have been very happy with them. I've only had one that didn't work well and they replaced it for me. Good service and half the price of HP cartridges.

Linda Waha

Whoah, folks. In genealogy I thought we were talking about longevity of records. These cartridges of ink are not archival, as I understand it, and photos, etc. will not be long lasting. I, for one, am interested in long lasting records and photos. I'm not going to scan and print out valuable family photos and have them fade in a few years. I want them to be around for my children, grandchildren, and maybe even great grandchildren. If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can save some money, too. But in the meantime I'll spend the outragious amounts that they want for ink and have my photos for a looooooong time.

Dick Eastman

---> I'm not going to scan and print out valuable family photos and have them fade in a few years. I want them to be around for my children, grandchildren, and maybe even great grandchildren. If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can save some money, too.

You can plan on ALL inkjet printouts lasting about ten years. Laser printer printouts should last about twenty years. No printers that are priced for use in the home are going to last much longer than that. Also, the standard paper that we all print on is probably only going to last 50 to 100 years, although we won't be able to read the ink or toner by that time.

If you want to keep paper for a long, long time, buy archival paper and use a fountain pen with archival ink (not a ballpoint pen). Of course, those are rare these days.

Did you ever see writing made with a ballpoint pen in the 1950s? It has already faded significantly. Most of today's ballpoint inks will fade even faster than the inks of 50 years ago.

- Dick Eastman

Bill Shull

Other experts may disagree with you. Wilhelm Imaging Research conducts research on the stability and preservation of traditional and digital color photographs and motion pictures and has done EXTENSIVE research on ink jet printers and paper. They have found that the proper ink and the proper paper can give you ink jet photos that last up to 100 years. The secret seems to be to buy name brand printers, their archival inks (Chromalife, Vivera, etc.) and use high quality paper. They strongly recommend avoiding third party or off-brand inks and papers. Have there been any quality studies about the longevity of laser printers? Take a look at the Wilhelm studies and conclusions at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/

Walter Wood

>> Laser toner isn't cheap either, but the printer manufacturers
>> have not yet figured out how to gouge the public as much on
>> laser toner as on the ink used in inkjet cartridges.

Sure they have. I recently saw an HP "personal" laser printer online for $50. It comes with atoner cartridge that is only about 50% full. A new cartridge costs more than the printer running $55 to $65.

fran lerner

I have priced printer ink for my Epson CX7800 at Print Pal and the local stores and find that WalMart has the cheapest prices. Best Buy was among the highest. This was for the black and colors.

Happy Dae

Didn't Gillette used to give away the razor and make a profit on the blades? This is the American Weigh, right? Print Pal, eBay and Cartridge World have arisen to make a profit in THEIR niche -- created by the moguls of Lexmark and HP. Remember, too, you may not get what you pay for, but you WILL pay for what you get. There are other prices we pay besides money.

Happy Dae.
http://www.ShoeStringGenealogy.com

Bill Buchanan

I can't see why black laser toner would fade, it seems to made of carbon and resin. (I invite correction if I am wrong.) It is fused onto the paper. On archival paper I would expect it to last for generations. Of course, it might conceivably flake off, if the paper is handled roughly. Black and white photos from the 1800s have lasted remarkably well and I am sure there were people who expected them to fail after a few years.

In any case, my best ones have been put on CDs and various servers.

Nancy Pundsack

I have all my family photos printed by Canadian Superstore or Wal-Mart. Compared to home printing, the colors are truer, the quality is better, I think the paper and inks are more archival (but I'm not sure of that) and they are cheaper at 19 cents each (even less during a sale). That's for 4 by 6 size. For larger ones I wait for a two for one sale.

Susan Fortune

Costco refills my black cartridge for $7. They test & seal them before releasing them, using a huge, dedicated machine. Just don't let the empty one dry out before you have it refilled.

All my photos are printed professionally for cost savings & longevity.

Kathy Wilson

Kodak was running a big promotion for their printers just before Christmas. I like what I saw and bought 2, one for myself and one for my son and his wife. The printers are called Kodak EasyShare All-in-One Printer. There is a model 5100 and a 5300. I got the 5300. The following is advertising for the 5300, taken from www.kodak.com

"Fantastic prints don't need to be expensive.
Kodak has developed a revolutionary inkjet system that gives you crisp, sharp black documents and brilliant photos that last a lifetime.* Save up to 50% on everything you print compared to similar consumer inkjet printers.**

Print, copy, and scan
KODAK lab-quality pictures that last a lifetime* in as little as 28 seconds***
Large, high-resolution 3.0 in. (7.6 cm) color display for easy photo cropping
Easy, one-click photo printing from most memory cards
Uses a convenient 2-cartridge, 6-ink system "

The black cartrigde costs $9.99 and the 5-ink color costs $14.99

Marilyn

For everyday printing, I have my computer set to Draft mode to save on ink.

Alexis Bakeeff

Thank you, Dick, for the item on inkjet/laser printers and thank you all who commented! I've been having a hard time getting GOOD ribbons for my Panasonic KX-P1124. The printer works well after ten or more years but the quality of replacement ribbons is terrible. All the comments Dick's article triggered will be well digested as I consider what to do. Thanks much!!!!!!1

genejoan

Thanks, Dick, for this article. Could you write a follow-up article about actual cost per printed page?

I have no trouble with the per-page cost of paper.

I would like to know how to translate ink or laser cartridge contents & price into real cost per printed page.

I tried to track the HP definition of a page and could find only a picture of undefined words/letters. HP does reference a standard but I could not find any real information. Googling the standard only led back to the HP web.

I sure need this information, as I plan to buy a new printer soon.

GeneJoan


Timothy Eastman

I have owned the same Epson Stylus Photo R300 printer for over 3 years without any problems. Why this model when I purchased it? I look for a printer with individual color cartidges. If you buy one that uses a single tri-color (or 5-color) cartridge, then when one of the colors go out you have to throw out the whole thing even if there is still plenty left of the other colors (another way to rip you off).
My Epson cartidges have a chip in them that alerts the software to how full they are and when they are empty. If your printer says the cartridge is empty and won't print because of it, you can shake it and find there is still a bit left in them.
I refill my cartidges about 3 to 5 times before I buy a brand new one - which I've bought only 3 blacks and 2 each of the main 3 colors and 1 each of the 2 light colors. I have a small plastic device that touches the metal prongs on the cartridge for a few seconds and green-lights to reset the chip to full. I bought it after I bought the printer from Tiger Direct and I belive it is sold by other computer parts suppliers. It is a simple and relatively cheap chip re-setter for specific brands.
I also use cheap light-weight paper for my rough draft prints and heavy bond paper for the final cuts. If I have a document or printout I wish to keep indefinately for generations to come, I will laminate it. Laminators and laminate plastic is moderate cost and prevents fading of the paper and ink.
As good as photo printers are, if you want a picture to last for generations then it is best to have it done at a kiosk that uses high-quality inks and paper. Developed photos have special chemicals and metals which can last for well over a couple centuries unprotected. Professionals can project your digital images onto their photo paper and develop them as if they were 35mm negatives. But this can be expensive.
Shop around and seek expert advice. Consumer Reports' website does very well at comparisons of printers. Happy printing.

Dick Eastman

As to lamination, you might want to read the document on that subject produced by the Smithsonian at http://anthropology.si.edu/conservation/lamination/

Notice the words, "Lamination was a popular preservation method, adopted by many institutions handling large collections of archival materials. First introduced in the 1930s, lamination quickly became the primary choice for repairing and strengthening papers on a large scale. Now, however, conservators recognize that the materials used in lamination may degrade, damaging the very objects the process was intended to preserve."

Ifor Jackson

I use manufacturers' original cartridges. I used to refill and I have tried several 'compatibles' (that is, recycled), but find OEMs more reliable. How do I do it? I shop around for the cheapest price (and you can make big savings) then sell my empty cartridges on to refillers. In the end I usually pay less than I would for a so called compatible.

Louise

"the proper ink and the proper paper can give you ink jet photos that last up to 100 years." (Wilhelm studies and conclusions)
I was just talking to my brother who is a photographer on this very topic, and his point was that Wilhelm Imaging Research may claim that the photos may last up to 100 years, but there is no way on earth they can prove it. The technology has not been around for anything near to that length of time. It can only be speculation at this point. From what I could see, their study is based on a 15 year period. Hmmm.

Rod Nordberg

Does anyone know whether any retail photofinishers still print on color paper, instead of printing on white paper with colored ink? Reportedly, Kodak stopped making color film.

Athena

I recently gave up on my cheap laser printer and switched to solid ink -- I'll never go back. The cost for a refurbished unit with a 2-year warranty was competitive with laser printers with similar features (auto-duplex and network ready) and the cost per page is significantly lower than either color laser or ink jet.

I still have a 7-year old photo printer to use for high quality photo reproduction but for all my day to day work I use the Phaser.

Dino (All Dino, All The Time)

The Kodak, etc. kiosk machines found at some stores do NOT print with ink. When I was at my local camera shop, I asked what kind of ink they use in the machines and the owner opened the machine and showed me how they work. They have several rolls of different colored film that is fused onto the paper to make the print. This gives a longer lasting print and eliminates color variation due to differences in the inks. Also, could you imagine how many ink cartridges those stores would go through every day, and how often the machines would be out of service because of an empty cartridge?

Carolyn

I take my cartridges to Walgreen and they are filled in one hour. I have done black and color cartridges and have had no problem
Carolyn Altman

Thomas B

In another life, I was acquainted with people in HP's Printer Division. Their comments were HP was in the "Ink" business not the printer business.

Kathy

I just purchased a Kodak Easyshare all-in-one printer and I am very pleased!

Bill Lewis

I keep an old HP Deskjet that uses the #15 cartridge this is a huge cartridge compared to today's printers I get mine from Print Pal and they will typically last several months of heavy printing usually around 2000 to 2500 pages of text. The color cartridge is empty and the printer is set to draft for normal use. I have done Genealogy for many years and this printer is well over 10 years old and the information I printed is still as dark as the newer printouts. As for Laser I have 3 family books my mom had Laser Printed and bound in 1968 and they are still in great condition 40 years later. The paper has toned slightly but I would expect it to last 100 years with no problems.

For photos We have an HP Photosmart all in one that also works stand alone. This way on trips when we visit with people with old family photos we just plug it in and copy the photos and identify them right on the copy. Imagine a photo quality color copy machine that you can put in a medium sized roll around suitcase and take to family reunions and on visits. It is also much less trouble than a laptop and scanning and saving the files the copy is very good and takes just a few seconds and you can still talk and get family stories about the person recorded on your Digital Voice Recorder at the same time as you are printing the picture of the person. Photos bring out memories that would seldom be thought of in a standard interview process. And you can scan when you get home and make a CD for that persons family this has always met with much appreciation by the persons family especially if they are past 80.

It is a bit expensive and seems to do about 100 photos on a cartridge but the copies are very good and the one we have enlarges so we can make 8 X 10 prints of their favorite photos and leave them as a gift for their time with us. We have enlarged some group snapshots to full page and the quality is still good with paterns on dresses still recognizable as flowers. While we have used as much as $100 in Cartridges during some of these multi cousin visits the pile of pictures is worth much more. It uses color and black ink for B&W photos in order to get true gray scale copies. I print on 60# archival cardstock made for color inkjet printers that I purchase by the case at a paper supply company. It is around 3 cents a page by the case. I do not trust the slick photo quality paper for my photos.

Bill Lewis

Judy Cantwell

I hav a Lexmark because I had so much trouble with HP'S. I even wrote to Lexmark about the unrealistic amount of ink in their cartridges...didn't even have the courtesy to reply! We're talking about hundreds of dollars for a printer --I should have purchased a cheapie!

Valerie Wright

Why does Future Shop (in Canada - now owned by Best Buy) seem to push HP printers? Not much variety of Canon represented. I believe Canon can provide better colour resolution. Am thinking of the MX850, 4 in one. (have used an HP932 for 7 years and it has been reliable but the moment I enter Future Shop they start pushing HP. Yet, if I start asking about the CANON they will claim colour resolution IS better on the Canon).
Was startled today, in Staples. Was looking at the CANON MX850 but I was surprised to be told by the salesman that the life expectancy is two years. That the ink dries up - different kind of ink from the past - it is designed to be dry when it hits the paper and that the equipment will be clogged up in two years?? I gathered that this applied to all of today's inkets. Any experts out there? Is it true that now ink is not wet when it hits the paper it has reduced longevity of the printer? Help please. I would really like to buy the MX850 at $259 but not for a two year life. Valerie

Shelly

I have been printing out photo's for years- what I have learned is that I don't care who made the printer, ink jet photos fade and run if a little drop of water gets on the photos. To solve this problem, I buy a product that sets the ink- it is usually at any craft or art store. Artist use this spray to set their charcoal drawings. You have to hang the photo up on a clothes line and then just lightly spray it- they dry very fast. It also helps if you use photo paper of the same manufacture. ie.. HP photo paper with HP printers. For everyday use I have found very cheap photo paper that works well and last long- for gifts I use the expensive paper. I never refill the ink cartridges for one reason only- they can cause damage to the printer head/ to replace an average
printhead cost about $80.00, it would than be cheaper to buy a new printer. If you don't print anything often, you should print a test page atleast once a week/ this will keep your print head clean and "clog" free. If you are looking to buy a new printer, research, research and research,
always check to see how much ink is wasted whenever you start the printer- I have found that some popular brands waste ink whenever you start them- Remember " buyer beware"

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