« California Woman Uses RootsWeb to Commit Identity Theft | Main | Using the Social Security Death Records »

April 18, 2008

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Nancy

I'm still using an old FTM version (FTM v.11) because I don't like what Ancestry has done with it since.

Could anyone recommend The Master Genealogist v. 7 to an intermediate user?

PowerUser

I cannot recommend TMG to anyone. It is about as slow, buggy as FTM 2008. It is does NOT support Unicode. Worst of all, the user interface is the worst you've ever seen. Download the 30-day trial to experience this horror for yourself....

Rootdigger

A lot of people love TMG, and it appears to deserve its reputation as the most powerful genealogy program. However, I think you have to lean toward loving techie stuff to be a successful user; I am no computer dummie but I do not have the patience to learn to use it. I prefer Legacy, which does almost as much as TMG does, and is far more intuitive and easy to learn. Roots Magic is also a good program. You can try them out before buying, so give all 3 (or more) a test drive and see which you prefer.

Lois

TMG is the 3rd genealogy program I have used. I am not a techie. I rely on the computer guys and retired engineers in my local TMG SIGlet to explain the finer points to me on the rare occasions when I care. I also do not care about computer generated narratives. I write my own material , thank you very much. However, I am very happy with TMG. I like how it handles citations and sources. I like how it handles recording conflicting information for a birth date, etc. It is not good as a first genealogy program because it offers too many choices and is not as easy to learn to use as, for example, Brother's Keeper and Legacy. Other programmes are at least its equal with charts. As I recall, FTM has better charts. I have a database approaching 20,000 people. Not all programmes can really handle that much. It works well with Gensmart. FamilyAtlas has been more of a struggle but that seems to be only because a minority of my ancestors and descendants are/were located in the US, not because of any deficiency in TMG.

Helen

I purchased TMG & will never use it - I paid for upgrades, etc. & each time (like now) it comes out almost a new program. I know at least 7 people who also do not use what they purchased. I plug along with (always the best) UFT and PAF -- easy to use, understand and do all I need to have them do!

Hans Langa

TMG was made by someone who thinks making things look techie is impressive.
Real techies prefer fast and capable programs like RootsMagic, not slow and buggy stuf like TMG that make your Pentium feel like a Commodore 64, and need three manuals and five bug fixes before you can add a person.

Lois

After 4 years of heavy use, TMG has not been buggy for me. In fact, not a single technical problem has come up. They do issue frequent up-dates to fix problems that never occur for me because I use it to record my findings, including adding people, new and sometimes information with source citations, relationships. I agree that the user interface is not as effortless as BK, FTM and Legacy but the critics today are exaggerating for dramatic effect. My problems came at the beginning when I had to integrate thousands of sources from FTM's inferior system for citations to TMG's much superior system. Not much of an issue for someone making the switch with 500 or so people in their database.

Lois

That's "sometimes conflicting information"

Susan

I bought TMG at version 6.12, a year and a half ago, and have always applied the updates. I agree that this is not for the brand-new-to-genealogy user, but the program works very well. If you want your work to reflect current standards for citing sources (i.e. Elizabeth Shown Mills _Evidence Explained_) it is really the only program out there that can do the task. The report formats work very well, even if you do not like "canned text" (BTW, the text can be varied infinitely . . .). As for PAF, which I too started with, it is clunky at best and the source citation is miserable. It appears that FamilySearch is essentially abandoning PAF and going the way of Ancestry.com with an even clunkier on-line tree thing. TMG requires one to open to learning and improving. Suits me.

Hans Langa

Lois says TMG is superior to FTM. That's damning with faint praise...

Sorry Lois, but TMG is for people who are impressed by technical-looking programs.
TMG's actual capabilities are.. saddening. This poor excuse of a program is slooowwww, and its import is sloooowwwwer.

Want to import 50.000 people? Please wait a day, press OK every time you see an error box and pray it works out. Be ready for disappointment and starting over.... :-(

Want to make websites? TMG can't do it. You need to buy another program for that.

Want to use foreign characters? TMG can't do it, period.

That's BASIC stuff! - and TMG can't handle it.


Rob

I use TMG version 6.12 and I have no problem with foreign characters. The program accepts standard microsoft entry using the alt key and the number pad. The program also has a "character map" accessed under "Tools" "External Utilities" where there is a long list of foreign characters that you can just click on the character you want and in appears at where your cursor is.
The program isn't slow. I am not very computer adept but have learned enough of the program without any problem. I confess there are a number of people who love to play with the program and go on endlessly about some feature you will never use and I generally have no idea what they are talking about. The solution to this annoying problem is to ignore them.
I will say that I have used Legacy also. It is more intuitive and I like the reports, however my primary program remains TMG.

Hans Langa

"I use TMG version 6.12 and I have no problem with foreign characters."
Rob, that is simply because you don't use them...
Those of us with, hm, international trees do.
TMG is stuck in in the 1980s. It does still not support Unicode!

"The program isn't slow."
No, it is not just slow, it is VERY SLOW, but if you have a fast computer and a small databases (say just just 10.000 people), and no comparison with other programs, you just don't notice it. If you do try other programs, and if you have big database, you will notice.

Phil Rhoton

I have heavily used UFT, TMG, and Genbox. I am familiar with PAF, Legacy, FTM and RootsMagic. UFT was and still is my favorite program but I migrated long ago because I got tired of stitching it together each time a new version of windows came out. TMG has served me fairly well since that time but I admit it is "clunky" and slow. The only reason I have remained with it is because it one only two programs that I know of that allow citations WITHIN Memos/Notes.

Nancy

Thanks for your comments everyone. I think I'll stay away from TMG and think about trying Legacy.

Nancy

Rob

Hans, I gave you in my comment two ways to use international characters in the program. I don't know if it supports Unicode however I think the program does support international characters if you could be even slightly flexible. I don't use a lot of international characters except german language ones. With those, there is no problem.

Jimini

I started computerized genealogy with PAF (not nearly versatile enough), next I moved to Roots which I used happily from DOS through version 3 (now defunct, v.4 was terrible!), now I'm committed to TMG. I have had no problems with speed and it does everything I need and more, which is nice because as I become a more sophisticated genealogist it can still meet my needs. I have a HUGE database and hope I never have to change programs again! In my experience changing programs is a nightmare.
The best of luck whatever program you chose - and I do urge you to follow the advice to try out as many as you can - one man's meat is another man's poison.

Caroline Gurney

The comments above about TMG being buggy, clunky and slow are quite ridiculous. As one who regularly tries other programs such as Legacy, Roots Magic, Genbox and Family Historian, just to see what their advocates are so excited about, I can say with confidence that TMG is a far superior program for any serious genealogist who aspires to professional standards of work. And don't just take my word for it. Bill Mumford has sadly not updated his Genealogical Report Card since 2005. But up until that time TMG led the field with an overall score of 81 out of 90, compared with 39 for PAF, 51 for Roots Magic and 61 for Legacy, to take three programs mentioned favourably above. TMG is not difficult to use for someone with a reasonable level of intelligence - I speak as someone who has demonstrated the program here in the UK on numerous occasions and helped many beginners to use it, so I actually know what I'm talking about. Many of the advanced features can be switched off if a beginner so desires but, after a few weeks, the majority of new users want to turn them back on again! So Nancy, please do not be put off the one-sided and prejudiced comments above. Give the free download of TMG a fair trial and see why so many users (including Dick Eastman, I think) are very happy with it.

AntiTroll

FAIR WARNING.

Caroline Mumford can hardly be trusted to be objective.
The TMG UK edition is partly her product!

As her own web site states on the home page:
"The UK version of the program uses a set of source templates which I developed for use in UK genealogy."
http://www.gurney.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Caroline, instead of claiming to look at other programs, you should be honest about your affiliation with the product being discussed!

Frank Helford

Caroline,

I take issue with your passive-agressive attitude towards criticism.

"The comments above about TMG being buggy, clunky and slow are quite ridiculous."
Your arrogant dismissal of criticism is quite ridiculous.
It's a free country! We have a RIGHT to state our opinions and complaints!

"TMG is a far superior program for any serious genealogist who aspires to professional standards of work."
What are you trying to say? That those who do not use TMG do not aspire to professional standards of work? That using anything else makes you unprofessional?

"And don't just take my word for it."
Don't worry. I won't :-)

"TMG is not difficult to use for someone with a reasonable level of intelligence"
And what are you trying to say here? That anyone who criticises TMG's clunkiness is dumb?

"So Nancy, please do not be put off the one-sided and prejudiced comments above."
No Nancy, please don't. Listen to comments from those who tried, not those with an interest in a particular program.

"Give the free download of TMG a fair trial."
Caroline, please give FTM, Legacy, BK and RootsMagic a fair trial and see why many users are happy with it. That you are wedded to TMG does not mean we have to like it to. Everyone likes something different.

Caroline Gurney

For the record, I have been entirely honest. I was the one who posted the link to my website for anyone to see my involvement with TMG. I designed the UK source templates for my private use in TMG but also made them freely available on the web to other users. When the UK edition of TMG was being developed, Bob Velke asked for my permission to use the source templates as part of the program. I refused to accept his offer of payment because of the outstanding customer support I had received from Wholly Genes over the years as a user, including numerous free or very cheap upgrades. I am in no way affiliated with Wholly Genes and have never made any money out of the program. All the work I have done in demonstrating TMG, in running the Bristol TMG User Group and in acting as List Admin for the TMG-UK mailing list has been entirely voluntary. This is true of all the genealogical work I do for others. I am not a professional genealogist and have never made a penny out of my hobby.

Also for the record, my name is Caroline Gurney, not Caroline Mumford. Getting names and facts right is pretty basic stuff for genealogists.

Caroline Gurney

Frank - I attacked what I saw as very unfair and OTT criticisms of TMG. You have attacked me personally. I think that speaks volumes.

Yes, you are free to post criticism, and I am free to say that I find that criticism ridiculous. You are free to say that TMG is "clunky" and "buggy", and I am free to say that it is "far superior". The argument cuts both ways :-)

I was not trying to say anything in my post other than what I said. The spin you have put on my words is offensive. Of course users of many different genealogy programs aspire to professional standards. I was stating my belief that TMG is the best tool for that purpose. TMG was criticised for not being easy to learn. I responded that it was not difficult for someone of reasonable intelligence, based on my actual experience of helping beginners to use it. How on earth does that translate into accusing critics of being dumb?

I have been open about my commitment to TMG and have explicitly stated that I regularly try out a range of other genealogy programs. I have also posted a link to my website. Sadly, neither searching this website nor Googling on "Frank Helford" turns up any hits, so I have no idea what your own connection with other genealogical software may be. The initial outrageous criticisms coupled with the vitriolic responses to my post do suggest that there may be some partisan forces at work here.

Frank Helford

"I attacked what I saw as very unfair and OTT criticisms of TMG."
Unfair? LOL. I think the criticism I read here has been holding back. I think they are all just trying to be polite.
You however attacked those who criticized with passive-aggressive insults. That speaks volumes.

"I am free to say that it is "far superior"."
Oh sure, but you should be open about your affiliation with the program before doing so.

"The spin you have put on my words is offensive."
No. Your words are offensive because of their passive-agressive attack of everyone else, and someone needed to say that.

"TMG was criticised for not being easy to learn."
No, that is YOUR SPIN.
The actual criticism by Nancy is "the user interface is the worst you've ever seen.", by Hans Langa as "slow and buggy stuff like TMG that make your Pentium feel like a Commodore 64, and need three manuals and five bug fixes before you can add a person" and "TMG is for people who are impressed by technical-looking programs.".
Susan noted that PAF is also " clunky at best and the source citation is miserable."
Hans added TMG can't make websites and does not support Unicode.
Phil Rhoton confirmed that it is clunky and slow.
Sorry if I missed some comment, but I searched, and you are the only one who uses the word "learn" - just now!


"I .... have explicitly stated that I regularly try out a range of other genealogy programs."
But do you really? You are so obviously wedded to TMG, that you are willing to twist other peoples words and make passive-aggressive insults.
Don't whine that I question your honesty. Yes, I do question your honesty - and I made it clear why.
You question everyone who criticize TMG by implying they did not give it a "fair trial".

Your attitude is that anyone who disagrees with you is unfair, stupid or a beginner.
That is insulting.

"I have no idea what your own connection with other genealogical software may be."
WTF? Just because I disagree with you I must be connected to another vendor?
OMFG Woman! Just because you are not upfront about your connection does not mean everyone here is a shill for some company.

"the vitriolic responses to my post"
Major LOL. Any vitriol here is entirely your own passive-aggressive doing.
Everyone else was just giving their opinion without insulting others.

Holly Hendricks

As time permits, I follow the TMG users list. Caroline has been extremely generous with her time and ideas over the years, and most importantly, has supplemented the professional support folks at TMG by patiently helping many people who are interested in TMG but who feel somewhat intimidated by the range of features. She is the kind of user any beginning user of a product needs, as she patiently helps, explains, and gives examples.

When I helped out in the TMG booth at trade shows, Bob Velke listened thoughtfully to both praise and frustration, and acknowledged with a smile that some people are indeed satisfied with other products.

If anyone wishes they had access to a more powerful tool than they now use, though, I hope they give TMG a try. The dedicated volunteer support community includes people like Caroline and Lee Hoffman and about 20 other "super users" who patiently answer any question you'd wish to ask as many times as you need day after day. No one gets away with flaming beginners on the TMG list.

Holly

Frank Helford

Holly, perhaps Caroline is a nice person at TMG settings.
But here she has been downright condescending and - to use her own word - vitriolic.
Some people might be intimidated by her behavior, that paints them as unfair, less than smart and beginners - only for not agreeing with her!
I felt it only right to speak up against her passive-aggressive behavior.

BTW, regarding your suggestion, if you ever feel the need for a more powerful program than TMG, I hope you'll give PAF, Brother's Keeper, GenoPro and Family Tree Maker a try ;-)


Don Michel

Okay! Let's play nice now.

Janice Nickerson

As a professional genealogist who is committed to high quality research, documentation and reporting, I purchased TMG as it seemed to be universally recommended for the serious genealogist. I gave it several long and frustrating trials. I really wanted to like it. I was expecting to like it. But I found myself hating it. I don't find it intuitive enough for my needs. I find entering data very slow and frustrating. Maybe it offers a lot of functionality once you get used to it and have your datea entered, but I just don't have the time to do that. I need something I can use quickly and efficiently. I've tried several versions of Family Tree Maker, GenBox, RootsMagic and Brother's Keeper. For speed of data entry, the old versions of FTM win hands down (not the 2008/2009). A good second, and much better for source citations and other features is RootsMagic. That's my current favourite.

Pamela M. Langston

Where can I buy a program disk for Master Genealogist V.6? Mine is lost and I have to reinstall and need it desperately to finish book before I go to v.7. Have used TMG since it first came out (before that Roots 3) and I love it!! I am so used to the format I would hate to change. I am sure that some of those people who say that they hate it would be glad to oblige if only I could contact them.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Receive FREE daily newsletter updates by email

  • Enter your email address


    Click here to see a typical e-mail message you will receive.

    I promise that:

    1. I will never sell, rent, or give away your address to any outside party, ever;
    2. I will never send you any unrequested e-mail, besides newsletter updates; and
    3. All unsubscribe requests are honored immediately, period.

My Photo

Search This Site for Past Articles

Meet Dick Eastman in Person

November 2009

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30          

Amazon Kindle

Offers

Blog powered by TypePad

Amazon Picks

Receive daily newsletter updates by email

  • Enter your Email


    Preview

    (Don't worry, I hate spam as much as you do and you will be able to UNSUBSCRIBE within seconds at any time!)