Ancestry.com and FGS to Collaborate on Large Indexing Initiative For Individuals

The following announcement was written by The Generations Network, parent company of Ancestry.com:

ANCESTRY.COM LAUNCHES GLOBAL PUBLIC INDEXING INITIATIVE AND ANNOUNCES FIRST COLLABORATION WITH THE FEDERATION OF GENEALOGICAL SOCIETIES

Ancestry.com Introduces the World Archives Project to Preserve and Provide Online Access to Historical Records

Philadelphia – Sept. 4, 2008 – Ancestry.com, the world’s largest online family history resource, today launched the World Archives Project, a global public indexing initiative designed to give individuals everywhere the opportunity to help preserve historical records. The Federation of Genealogical Societies (FGS) is the first organization to partner with Ancestry.com during this beta phase of this new venture, enlisting genealogists and family history enthusiasts to help test the software and prepare it for a more public release.

Now in public beta, the World Archives Project allows individuals to transcribe information from images of original historical records and to create indexes that will remain accessible for free on Ancestry.com and on Ancestry’s localized sites in the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, Germany, France, Sweden, and Italy. Active contributors* will soon be able to access all original images that are part of the World Archives Project. Organizations can also partner with the World Archives Project and sponsor indexing projects. Ancestry.com will donate a digital copy of the sponsored index and images back to partnering organizations.

“As a global society, we are falling further and further behind when it comes to digitizing historical records,” said Tim Sullivan, president and CEO of The Generations Network, parent company of Ancestry.com. “The World Archives Project allows us to work collectively as a community to preserve and to digitize records that will otherwise surely be lost to the wear and tear of time. By providing free access to these indexes on the world’s most popular family history website, we will provide millions of people with access to records that might help them unlock new clues about their ancestors.”

Already, several thousand individuals have joined the World Archives Project private beta, indexing Wisconsin Mortality Schedules and Nebraska State Censuses. Participants provided feedback and recommendations for this public beta release.

“We are thrilled to be a part of this cause and to help spread the world about this new initiative,” said Wendy Elliott-Scheinberg, president of FGS. “The World Archives Project is a great way for enthusiasts and genealogical societies to directly impact and further family history research.”

“FGS has been enormously helpful in the development of our vision for the World Archives Project,” said Sullivan. “The 500+ genealogy societies that FGS represents are absolutely critical to the continued health and growth of genealogical research. We’ve been searching for years for the right way to partner with genealogy societies, and we think this project will allow us to help them attract new members by leveraging the popularity of Ancestry.com. We appreciate the encouragement and support FGS provides and look forward to continuing our relationship as this project marches forward.”

For more information about the World Archives Project or to get involved, visit www.ancestry.com/worldarchivesproject.

*Specific guidelines must be met to be considered an active contributor. For more information, visit http://landing.ancestry.com/wap/learnmore.aspx.

About Ancestry.com

With 26,000 searchable databases and titles and nearly 3 million active users, Ancestry.com is the No. 1 online source for family history information. Since its launch in 1997, Ancestry.com has been the premier resource for family history, simplifying genealogical research for millions of people by providing them with many easy-to-use tools and resources to build their own unique family trees. Ancestry.com is part of The Generations Network, Inc., a leading network of family-focused interactive properties, including www.myfamily.com, www.rootsweb.com, www.genealogy.com and Family Tree Maker. In total, The Generations Network properties receive nearly 7.5 million unique visitors worldwide (© comScore Media Metrix, July 2008). To easily begin researching your family history, visit www.ancestry.com.

About FGS

The Federation of Genealogical Societies links the genealogical community by serving the needs of its member societies, providing products and services needed by member societies, and marshaling the resources of its member organizations. FGS was founded in 1976 and represents the members of more than 500 genealogical societies. FGS links the genealogical community by helping genealogical societies strengthen and grow. To do this, FGS publishes FORUM magazine, filled with articles pertaining to society management and genealogical news. FGS also publishes an extensive series of Society Strategy Papers, covering topics about effectively operating a genealogical society.

Comments

[theKiwi]

System Requirements:
Operating System:
Windows XP Home or Professional, Windows Vista

So that leaves "The Rest of Us" out. At least FamilySearch came up with a Java based application that runs on my Macintoshes.

And from another page:

Active contributors will receive free access to original images in the project’s databases. Those who already subscribe to Ancestry.com will be eligible for a discount on renewal.)

So I won't be able to earn a 15% discount ($45) off my Ancestry.com World account unless I do this from Windows XP running in Parallels on my Mac - something I try to avoid as much as possible.

Hello Ancestry - any word on a Macintosh client for this?

Roger

[Brad Moser]

Has the FGS sold out? Why give the hard work of their members away to a commercial company? Why aren't they working with the LDS or starting their own independent initiative?

[theFrog]

Again, the mother of all is looking for a few good fools to transcribe any and all records so they may sell the rights to view this work to the rest of the world. Oh yes, the index will be available to all who wish to look but you will pay to see the actual work which others did so this conglomerate may continue to have bragging rights. I also question why FGS would join with this organization ??? Miss the days of the old, free and helpful rootsweb. Even miss the days before everyone thought they had to be wired to be a family researcher. Long live the dinosaurs who still know what the
inside of a court house looks and feels like.

[Traci]

Excuse me...a few good fools? I'll bet "theFrog" does not volunteer to index with FamilySearch either. Just your average old griper and complainer. Of course he misses "the days of the old, free and helpful rootsweb" when everyone else did all the work, and he would glean what he could for free, copying information onto family group sheets that went into his file cabinet, never to see the light of day. Collaboration and sharing? What's that?

Long live the mammals who know what the inside of a court house looks like AND still find time to volunteer to index for FamilySearch and Ancestry.com. I take umbrage at the 'fool' remark from the dinosaur.

[Linda Stienstra]

Number one: I am not a fool. I am a giving, sharing person. I was at event and saw the presentation. I firmly believe in what they are doing.

If I can help somebody locate a record, I feel good. If a researcher went to a Courthouse, and I do, he would have to pay to get a copy of the document he found. What you are saving is gas money and time involved in searching dusty old books. . . . and at least you have located something you're looking for.

Number two: I volunteer to do indexing (and no, I don't belong to the LDS Church)and I volunteer for RAOGK and Find-a-grave and at my local Historical Society.

I believe the community should help each other, after all a lot of information can be shared and YOU benefit, too!

[Linda]

Read the fine print. What they are asking is for the public to do the work and then in order to access it? we pay for Ancestry.com. If you want to index, do it for the Family Search group. That really is free. I don't understand why they are working with Ancestry.com on this project?

[Kathy]

Ancestry is a company... a for-profit company, and they have the money and resources to create a system where people can interface with documents and transcribe them. That takes LOTS of money to program something like that. They want to make something that will create a dialog with people and to entice them to join. It's business. I am just jealous that I didn't have the money to do something like this first... and then have the money to offer it for free.

[Bob]

I did some transcribing for Ancestry.com many years ago, and received a fee. I was deeply unhappy about the attitude of some of their staff in Washington State.
Since Family Search started there indexing on line, I must have indexed thousands of names, the best thing is that they will remain free.
I am not against companies or Family History Groups, I have personally transcribed many Church Yards for which the FHG now charge for the CD's. Ancestry has to make a profit - just ask how much Ancestry paid the British Govt. to use the census images on line, and think how many people this has helped.

[Linda Johnston]

AHEM!! Ancestry takes on another HUGE project to "help" the genealogy community? Let's get REAL. They are to be the beneficiaries of yet another scam, to get the "sweat equity" of generous researchers, who volunteer to do this work for no pay. That must save Ancestry a considerable amount of money, since they don't have to employ people to gather the information. I don't see them completing a project that they PROMISED to do, about 10 years ago. That project was the reconstruction of the 1890 Census. I am certatin that that would benefit many researchers and, correspondingly, enlarge their paid subscribers. Are they NOT doing the project because it would involve actually PAYING employees at Ancestry to work on it? With their "vast databases", one has to suspect that they have the data. It's simply a matter of getting a team of people to put that data together, to make it available.

By the way, I DO volunteer my time, transcribing a cemetery in Ohio, while I live in Michigan. I use my vacation time for that. I also type all obituaries from my area, and donate a CD and a hard copy to local libraries, historical societies, and a part of RootsWeb that is NOT able to be "harvested" by Ancestry. I DO NOT believe in giving away my hard work, only to have to pay to see it on Ancestry. In addition, I enjoy doing lookups for individuals who need help, but don't have the financial or physical resources, to go to those great old courthouses, where musty smells and dust abound. I happen to have been fortunate enough to have acquired an extensive library, over the years and, when the snow abounds, I do my best work, at no charge. My only request, with regard to payment is, you help the next person who needs assistance, if you have the resources to do so. I believe that's called RAOGK, even though I don't advertise it.

[Gene]

It sounds to me like this group needs a lesson in how our Society and free market system works. #1 FGS by no means would have the resources alone to pull this off. Kathy is right. We are lucky to have ANY genealogical societies left to join the FGS. Another sign of our society as a whole. #2 Like it or not a company that is in the business of genealogical records is the one to handle it. (I know there is a whole other discusson on Ancestry's less than user friendly web-site, but...) FamilySearch is church based and although their resources are greater than some non-profits, they are still limited.

It never ceases to amaze me all the screaming that is done about all of this being "free" is so selfish and short sighted. "Free" to the screamers means "free to me". They don't give a hoot about who actually pays - for the programming, the disk space, the servers, the Internet access with enough bandwidth for the traffic, security, the maintenance, etc. etc.

If some of the screamers would like to step up to the plate and foot the bill (like many thousands of $$$ a month), let them do so. I'd like for it all to be free to me as well, but as an IT Manager I estimate that startup costs for a very small site would be in the area of $250K and there would be no content yet.

Somehow letting Ancestry deal with that seems like a great option.

[George Peres]

If this really goes through, we should all ask our societies to withdraw from the FGS. We do not want to support a criminal company that keeps stealing subscriptions that aren't owed, data that isn't theirs and copyrighted web sites.

The FGS could have taken the high road and said no. They can work with the LDS instead, an organisation that isn't out to scam you.
FGS members should kick the current board out or leave. This FGS does not deserve to exist. If my society remains a member, I will leave.

[Nancy]

I applaud the current leaders of FGS and their willingness to work with Ancestry to make more records available to both serious researchers, and those that want to sit at home and have it all for the price of their internet connection.

If you cannot afford the price of a subscription to Ancestry.com, check your local library and LDS church. In my community Ancestry is free to all at both. I am happy to have the records available! When I started my family history researh in 1982, I could not have imagined the ease of access to records that we have today. Thank you Ancestry!

[Bob Cocklin]

Nancy is the new Amanuensis?

[Chicky]

Ummm. Did you guys not read the second paragraph of the press release? It says "...World Archives Project allows individuals to transcribe information from images of original historical records and to CREATE INDEXES THAT WILL REMAIN ACCESSIBLE FOR FREE on Ancestry.com and on Ancestry’s localized sites..." (my own emphasis added).

I know that lots of people mistrust Ancestry, but c'mon- they spell it out in the press release- they aren't going to charge for the work of the volunteers in this one. I doubt they want the PR hullabaloo that would come of changing that after they promised it publicly.

[Dunham Swift]

I too would like to see a Macintosh capability. There are millions of Macintosh users and a whole lot of them (me included) that would utilize this resource if we were able. Please don't let some lazy IT Department tell you it would be too difficult. All it would take is some willingness and small investment which would be made up for in the future. Thanks for your consideration.

[Sarah]

I have mixed feelings about this union. I can see its merits but I do have my concerns. They are saying free right now to make people interested but will it remain that way.

As several posters here alluded to doing transcribing and RAOGK, I have also done the same and it takes a considerable amount of time and dedication. I did contact LDS about transcribing and was told by the local LDS stake that my services would not be accepted because I was non-Mormon.

[Linda - Wisconsin]

Why should we volunteer on a huge project like this and then half to pay for looking the same information up. At least FamilySearch.com is free. I have been volunteering with them for several weeks now, and the process is very easy to learn, and I will continue volunteering for them. Thanks, but no thanks to the Ancestry FEES AND HIGHER FEES.

[Judy - California]

Sarah, I'm sure you will hear from others that you do not have to be a member of the LDS church to participate in their online indexing project. Just log on at FamilySearchIndexing.org and follow the instructions to begin indexing.

[Marilyn]

I transcribed some census records for LDS just this week, my first time...I am not a Mormon church member, they don't ask about it..(Sarah) try again here (http://www.familysearchindexing.org/en/home/home.jsf?pname=homeTab)

About USGenWeb -- is it defunct? So many of their links are broken whenever I try to use their various features.

[Adrian B]

I'm not sure why Dick bothers... Over 50% of the content of this discussion was predictable - "sold out", " a criminal company", etc.

I have huge sympathy with Mac users if they have issues. And equal sympathy with those who complain about indexing issues. BUT...

I would just point out a discussion I saw complaining that the lauded LDS also uses dodgy technology for their Pilot site (I paraphrase); that the FreeBMD site in the UK (volunteer driven) refused my first correction with the explanation that (paraphrasing) 'we've tried our best so we don't think you can better it' (contrast this to umpteen corrections of mine to Ancestry that are now in their indices); and the simple fact that in the UK, the commercial companies have 1, 2 or 3 versions of each census while the volunteers had never got much beyond the 1881 and various _bits_ of the 1851 or 1841.

I simply want as much data as possible - I love what the LDS are doing with Cheshire voters' records, but I also want anything a commercial company can offer me in a manner that makes it cost effective for me.

[jeanneo]

I agree with the many people who have defended Ancestry. I think that their annual memberships are a relative bargain when compared with the amount of time (and gas) it would take for me to go to libraries or LDS Family History centers to use their free access to Ancestry. In this day and age, "free" is disappearing fast, and understandably so. As other posters have pointed out, it takes huge resources, both financial and human, to digitize old records.

It's easy to complain, but at least be fair about it. As Chicky pointed out, access to these publicly indexed records will be free. And why worry about whether that will change in the future? Nothing remains the same forever. I think that Ancestry and FGS are doing a good thing, and I hope other organizations will join the effort.

[Janet Arkel]

Chicky, read again... the records are not free.
Read again! The records are NOT free!

They want the societies to do the work for free, but do not offer full access to all society members.

[Zadruga Guy]

Janet Arkel, read again, "Ancestry.com will donate a digital copy of the sponsored index and images back to partnering organizations." So once a project is completed, if "all society members" don't have access to the indexes AND IMAGES that Ancestry.com donated, then complain to the society leadership.

[Dick Eastman]

---> I did contact LDS about transcribing and was told by the local LDS stake that my services would not be accepted because I was non-Mormon.

Absolutely not true. In fact, I believe the LDS Family History leadership in Salt Lake City would strongly disagree.

The only way to become an indexer is to sign up online. When you do so, you are not asked any questions about your religion or your religious beliefs. The project is open to everyone, including atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, and others.

- Dick Eastman

[Janet Arkel]

Zadruga Guy, read again!
You get access to that one project only. Images you already have (that's how you make a transcription, smartypants). You do not get access to it. Other societies do not get access either.

YOU ARE BEING FOOLED BY THE ANCESTRY MONEY GRABBERS.

They want you to work for free. YOU DO NOT GET PAID. THEY THEN SELL YOUR WORK TO EVERYONE ELSE, AND YOU DO NOT GET A CUT. You don't even get free access to Ancestry.com.

YOU DO NOT GET ACCESS. YOU DO NOT GET PAID. YOU DO NOT GET A CUT OF THEIR PROFITS. YOU GET NOTHING BUT THE IMAGES YOU ALREADY HAVE.

[Deanna Kelley]

The way I read the announcement is that the original records will not be free. The only thing that will be free are the indexes to the records. Which I believe is the way Ancestry works right now.

[Zadruga Guy]

Janet wrote, "Zadruga Guy, read again! You get access to that one project only."

I agree that societies only get the donation of that one set of indexes and images, and I never stated otherwise in my previous post.

"Images you already have (that's how you make a transcription, smartypants). You do not get access to it. Other societies do not get access either."

The society sponsoring the transcription gets a COMPLETED AND COMPLETE set of the images and index. What you would get WHILE you are transcribing is just one batch of images at a time. I presume that the society can take that set of indexes and images and put them on their society's website in a "members only" section, like what NGS is doing with some of their databases.

"YOU ARE BEING FOOLED BY THE ANCESTRY MONEY GRABBERS."

Don't think so.

"They want you to work for free. YOU DO NOT GET PAID. THEY THEN SELL YOUR WORK TO EVERYONE ELSE, AND YOU DO NOT GET A CUT. You don't even get free access to Ancestry.com."

Yes, I already understand all that. It is obvious from the plain language of the press release. But as I understand it, if I transcribe enough records each quarter, then I will get sweat-equity access to IMAGES and indexes for EVERYTHING that has been transcribed by me or by any other volunteer anywhere in the world -- which is exactly the same deal that FamilySearch.org is offering. I learned this by going to this page http://landing.ancestry.com/wap/learnmore.aspx. that was cited in the press release and clicking on the links that I found there.

"YOU DO NOT GET ACCESS. YOU DO NOT GET PAID. YOU DO NOT GET A CUT OF THEIR PROFITS. YOU GET NOTHING BUT THE IMAGES YOU ALREADY HAVE."

You are repeating yourself here. But, okay, worst case scenario, I do indexing for Ancestry and end up with nothing. What would I have if Ancestry wasn't doing this? I would still have nothing. Assuming that Ancestry chooses to have volunteers work on only projects that nobody else has already done, then how can this hurt anyone? If I find ancestral information that I otherwise would not have found, then I don't really care if I did not get if for "free". As the old saying goes, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

[Randy Seaver]

The Ancestry Insider posted additional information on his blog in http://ancestryinsider.blogspot.com/2008/09/details-revealed-about-ancestrycom.html.

He said that:

--------------------

For researchers who do not volunteer to index, the benefits of the project include:

* All indexes will remain free to the public on Ancestry.com.
* Ancestry.com will donate copies of record indexes and images from the project to partnering government archives and genealogy societies.
* Images and indexes from the project will be available for free to patrons at thousands of subscribing libraries across the U.S.
* Ancestry.com will provide free advertising to partnering genealogy societies.

For volunteer indexers, the benefits include:

* Vote on which records to index in the future.
* Have free access to original images in the project's databases.
* Receive a 10% discount off an annual U.S. Deluxe subscription renewal or
* Receive a 15% discount off an annual World Deluxe subscription renewal.

To be classified as an active contributor one must index a minimum of 900 records per quarter.

------------------------

I put my additional comments in http://www.geneamusings.com/2008/09/more-on-ancestrycom-public-indexing.html for those that care.

Cheers -- Randy

[Fred Westlake]

" Assuming that Ancestry chooses to have volunteers work on only projects that nobody else has already done, then how can this hurt anyone?"

OMG! Zadruga, how dense are you?
Do the same work for FamilySearch and it is public for all. So why would you work with a widely despised company like Ancestry.com?

[Chris]

We're all doomed!
How digusting that more records are being digitised and being made more accessible to people who don't have time, leisure and money to travel, in many cases thousands of miles, to access the paper or microfilm version! Living in England but of US descent, I know I should go to US courthouses but that will have to wait until I'm rich and retired. If the self confessed dinosaur who described people who transcribe as fools represents the sort of people I'd meet in courthouses they I'm glad I can't get to them!

If the whiners read the full details they would see that this looks like a good deal for FGS, Ancestry and the volunteers. Accusing the FGS of selling out is just plain stupid.

People who blindly and childishly object to the partnership between FGS and Ancestry can ignore the digitised records and stick with the originals. Presumably they will ignore the digitised documents that Ancestry will give back to the participating societies as part of this deal. Alternatively they can put their money where their mouths are and make the FGS a better offer.

The complaints that the software is windows only are justified and Ancestry should make a java version as soon as possible.

Don't bother replying to this if you are one of the anti-Ancestry hysterics especially the racist who made the comments about jews!I'm really not interested anymore

Dick, you need to start moderating this topic - comments about jews are not acceptable.

[Noel Elliot]

As director of research for The Genealogical Research Library in Canada, I'd like to offer my two cents worth. Everything I write here is only my personal opinion.

A few years ago we had the largest national genealogy database online in Canada. When Ancestry.com (via it's parent company MyFamily.com as it was known back then) came into Canada by forming Ancestry.ca they never contacted us in advance, or even said hello, or sought our cooperation. They just came in, set up a Canadian version of their website and by spending a lot of money proceeded to bulldoze and overwhelm us.

Personally, and again, only my personal opinion, I believe there are real problems with some questionable "techniques" and a lack of ethics, of Ancestry.com.

I do know a lot about indexing: our library indexed millions (not thousands) of ancestors for Genealogy.com until it was bought out by ancestry.com's parent. We were paid for our indexing work at genealogy.com, which was a good company - in my opinion - until they were taken over. Since then it seems to me that genealogy.com now languishes in comparative obscurity and many (if not all) of their records (including the ones we did) have been transfered over to ancestry.com and ancestry.ca. Nothing wrong with that, because genealogy.com sold itself to ancestry's parent. Fair ball.

We also created indexes of millions of ancestors which were published in book form, 12 massive volumes, of ancestors in Canada between 1600-1900. That was in the 1980's and 1990's, these books exist in many genealogical and public libraries in the USA and Canada. I say this to assure people that I have been very experienced in indexing projects for decades.

Our own indexers were not like some indexers today. Too many indexers today are not well-trained, any professional only has to look at passenger ship lists to the USA to see that.

We paid our indexers AFTER we trained them for free in spelling techniques, and taught them the common mistakes and errors made by transcribers, as well as the enumerators in the past. We paid them because we valued their time and efforts. Even Proverbs clearly states "The laborer is WORTHY of his hire". (emphasis mine).

Then there is Rootsweb. People volunteed their time for years, and everyone was proud to be volunteering indexing for them. Sure it was costly for the supporters, but it was non-profit, and everything was free and shared. Then ancestry.com "took over" via their parent, and in my opinion it was as if they were saying "we'll support you and still it will be free, we'll just run your websites under our own name and use our servers".

Since then I have the distinct impression that Rootsweb is being used used to get more people to join ancestry.com or .uk or .ca (with credit card in hand) for a "free trial". Maybe that's fair ball. Maybe that's what all those Rootsweb volunteers got in return for hosting? Rootsweb just doesn't look like or seem to be the same Rootsweb I used to recall.

Of course ancestry.com is a business, nothing wrong with that. And it exists in a country where free enterprise abounds. But personally, I don't think that free enterprise owning non-profit organizations go very well together. Enron was free enterprise, so free enterprise in itself is not enough. Ethics and cooperation and shared methods should be the hallmark of any business that is in the field of genealogy. Shouldn't it? Shouldn't it?

While I am not a Mormon, I do admire their website familysearch.org and I have always found them, with only a few exceptions, to be ethical, helpful and honest. It is part of the "good works" for LDS members to trace their ancestors for religious purposes. Indexing is part of their "good works" so yes they are performing a real volunteer service for a purpose. They were doing it for years...decades in fact...before the public interest in "Roots" and genealogy mushroomed into such a popular hobby and pastime. They were, as we say, "in the right place at the right time".

My opinions expressed here, and my past experiences, mean that I will have nothing to do with this world wide indexing announcement from ancestry.com

How long will ancestry.com's promises hold true? Why is there so much legal fine print? There are hundreds of organizations in European and other countries doing very professional work in indexing records. Why doesn't ancestry.com or it's parent really work to cooperate with them? Think it through!

That's my two cents worth.

[Cathie]

As a native born Scot, and all my relatives from Scotland,my membership to Ancestry.com.uk...as a waste of money...as Scotland had withheld all their records except in some of the indexes of the Scottish census...so until such time they have more Scottish records, they will not get my vote.

[Wanda Hinojosa]

I love Ancestry, BUT they have everything on my Family Tree Maker that I did NOT give them. I know because I have duplications on my FTM that I haven't taken off yet that are on the Ancestry site. When I'm not sure whose info I'm reading I go to the index & predictably there are all my husband's unusual ethnic surnames. How did they get them? I don't know. I suspect they are able to gain entry to FTM's via the internet connection on the toolbar which I no longer use, thank you very much. I have emailed them several times. I would like my contact info on the site as I would be able to receive input & questions from 'relatives' who use it Ancestry. Their responses have been no response or 'We don't know whose information it is'.

[dennis gries]

A comment above asks about USGenWeb.

The "front page" of USGenWeb.org is still on Rootsweb/Ancestry.

However, a number of states have migrated to other servers, and there should be a "jump" from USGenWeb to the state site, such as www.flgenweb.net for Florida. The problem (and I am working on "my county") is that the content on USGenWeb is not longer updated, and the content on the "new" pages are. Please use www.usgenweb.org and not any previously bookmarked pages, and then "connect" to the state page.

There was a concern along the same line of "issues" raised above. Enough said (valid or not).

[Joan McIlmoyl Cleghorn, U.E.]

Fascinating.....yes many libraries do have ancestry available but not always anything other than the US records...leaving out the Canadian & UK not to mention other parts of the world. In Canada, most of us have ancestry in numerous other countries so only the 'World Deluxe' is useful which costs hundreds of dollars here in Canada plus exchange. Also, for those who don't live close to a library, they either have expensive travel costs or if they have mobility issues may not be able to access it at all.

Apparently a few chosen Family History Centers in the US have access to ancestry but certainly not here.

After the abrupt way in which the contract with the Family History Centres was ended in addition to their attempt to scoop up copyrighted websites, I would certainly question a society in which I was a member getting involved with this company.

I don't believe that I should have free access to everything however in the case of our vital events info in this Province, we've paid for those records through our taxes then our society provided the volunteers to index them. The only charge to residents of the Province was for copying and those who lived outside the Province could easily get copies from those of us happy to get them. Then ancestry put these records on their site and only allowed access to paid subscribers! Fortunately they are still available through our archives and libraries as they were before.

If ancestry's fees were more reasonable and accessible to more people, I don't believe there would be such an outcry. When they are getting the most labour intensive work done gratis, it's quite disgusting. Setting up the software/programs and paying for the bandwidth etc. for the indexing and access is definitely doable based on voluteers and free access. Our Canadian censuses have been indexed by wonderful volunteers and are freely available in indices and partial transcriptions which then link directly to the digital imagea at Library and Archives Canada. So, it clearly doesn't require a company making huge profits to make it work and be accessible to all whether they're rich or not.

I applaud the LDS Church for launching their huge project and think all the volunteer indexers are wonderful. And yes I've indexed for this project as well as the Canadian census projects at automatedgenealogy.com

[Zadruga Guy]

I am puzzled by what Joan Cleghorn meant when she said a World Deluxe subscription in Canada costs "hundreds of dollars ... plus exchange." You only have to pay exchange fees if you subscribe to Ancestry.com. If you subscribe to Ancestry.ca you pay in Canadian dollars. Either site has the option of the World Deluxe subscription. http://www.ancestry.ca/subscribe/signup.aspx

[P Bangs]

I would like to tell you that I transscribe for the LDS ,I just finished up a few mins. ago for a while today, and I'm not a member. They are the most greatful people you'd ever want to meet. They appreciate any help they can get. We have a library for LDS just a ways away and you can go there and print out anything for FREE with a vol.staff to help you. I would transscribe for them anyday!!

[J acqui]

I am ambivalent about indexing for a company which will ultimately charge for it and do my indexing for LDS. However the cost of microfilming and setting up the databases (which are all different) should be taken into account. My friend who has a world ancestry sub (indexing is not open to UK subscription holders) has been trying it out on the English records held. Both of us agree that the whole database and indexing setup must be quite costly.

I for one would rather that family historians who are more likely to understand what they are looking at and also more likely to be able to read the handwriting (which believe me is sometimes absolutely appalling) do the indexing. Anyone can point a camera -it takes skill experience and preferably local knowledge to read this stuff. You have only to look at the 1901 British census indexing undertaken by prisoners as an example of what can happen!

Also if by doing this we are opening up more records to those of us who aren't prepared to fly 5000 or more miles to a strange country to look up records under a system alien to them why not?

[Mary B.]

Here is their FREE service; You VOLUNTEER to look at the records and make the INDEX, then others can read the INDEX for FREE, but what good is just the INDEX! if you want to actually SEE THE RECORD you have to BUY the subscription, so they are USING VOLUNTEERS to boost their subscription sales and make more money for themselves!!! Simple as that! (Many, many who view the index and see their person of interest and need to view the record will pay the subscription fee) I will not be "USED as a VOLUNTEER" in order for a PROFIT MAKING company to make more money unless I get something out of it in return (didn't they PAY people in India? to make the Census INDEXES?) and I am sure most of you will agree with me on that! or do I have this all wrong?

[Zadruga Guy]

Mary B., you are overlooking one thing -- since The Generations Network is a for-profit company, much of the profit that they make from selling access to images will be plowed back into adding NEW images and NEW records to the database. It would not make sense for TGN to do otherwise, given that happy cows (TGN customers) give more milk (subscription renewals). If, via this volunteer program, TGN can cut the cost of having people index the records, then that results in even more money that can go towards speeding up the pace for obtaining and digitizing new records.

So it is a virtuous cycle. The more people who give TGN money, the more money TGN will have to invest in expanded content. The more content there is, the more subscribers will be happy and thus continue to subscribe. Sure, some of the money from subscribers will go to the TGN shareholders, and to pay the electric bill, and for salaries and other overhead. But keeping existing customers happy (or at least trying to do so) is, for any for-profit business, the number one goal if they want to increase the profitablity of the enterprise, and so a lot of the money will go back into what makes the customers happy -- more records.

[Gary]

Several Points:
There are other extraction programs being conducted by the LDS Church. The online indexing program is open to the public (Church members or non-members are welcome). Some of the other extraction programs are not open to the public. Please try the online indexing program if you are interested in helping.
www.familysearchindexing.org

Ancestry.com:
Ancestry can not operate for free, they must make a profit to pay their employees and to stay open for business, just like any other businesss. The deal they are offering the FGS is a fair deal. They are offering to give copies of the indexes and copies of the images to the FGS and they can publish them free for their members if they choose to. Ancestry will also make the indexes available for free to everyone, and will try to recoop their costs by charging to view the images. This is a good solution, it is very costly to provide this service and it is a very fair agreement. If you don't like this option there are many other ways to donate your time for projects that you feel are more fair.

FamilySearch:
Not all projects being undertaken by FamilySearch will offer free access to the images from home. All projects FamilySearch undertakes will have free indexes and free access to images at Family History Centers, but there will be some projects where only the indexes will be free when not in a Family History Center and you will be linked to a fee for service site if you want access to the images. These types of agreements are necessary in order to get some of these projects completed, it is very expensive to host all of this information and someone has to pay these costs.

FamilySearch is even working with Ancesty.com on some of these types of agreements, they will make the indexes free on FamilySearch but to view the images you will need to go to a Family History Center or be linked over to Ancestry.com from home where you will need an account to view the images(there will be some other ways to gain access from home through indexing at a set level or by being a FamilySearch sponsoring member). Agreements like these are necessary to get some of these projects done.