Highway Robbery: Conferences, Conference Centers, and Conference Hotels

I just returned from the 2008 conference of the Federation of Genealogical Societies. As I reported in another article, I enjoyed most of it. However, a few things have me blowing steam out my ears. I do not plan to go through similar experiences ever again. In fact, I am questioning whether or not I want to go to any more genealogy conferences. I know from informal conversations with a number of people in the past few days that several others are considering the same issues. Several people I talked with this year tell me they won't be going to any more major conferences.

Let me jump ahead and provide the summation of this article: holding conferences in downtown locations of major cities is too expensive.

Now I'll provide the details.

This week's conference was held in downtown Philadelphia, but similar experiences have happened at numerous genealogy conferences in recent years. I will single out this year's conference because it is recent in my mind. However, what I am writing could have been written many times in the past few years.

Conference centers are always expensive, regardless of location. The downtown conference centers are simply more expensive than the suburban conference centers.

Major chain hotels in downtown locations tend to be very expensive. The rooms themselves are expensive, and then the “add-ons” place the total price well outside the reach of working folks and retirees. For example, the discounted, “conference special” room rate at this year's FGS conference hotel was advertised as $159 per night for a single guest. In fact, I made my reservation months in advance in order to obtain that discounted rate. However, like hotels almost everywhere, the guest has to pay additional taxes. In the case of the Philadelphia Downtown Marriott, the taxes added $22.26 onto each night's charges, for a total of $181.26 per night. Keep in mind that this is the discounted rate for conference attendees.

Next, many of us require Internet connectivity. Many of the cheaper chains include Internet access at no extra charge, but the high-end chain hotels (Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton, etc.) typically charge about $10.00 per night. A few even charge higher prices than that. The Philadelphia Downtown Marriott charges $9.95 per night for Internet access but, at check-out, I discovered that my bill reflected an extra seventy cents per day “telecomm tax” on the Internet charges for a total of $10.65 per day.

OK, now comes the worst part. For those of us who drove to the conference, parking at this year's conference hotel was a whopping $43 per day! (Gulp!) That moved beyond the definition of high prices; it is highway robbery. The parking attendant should have worn a mask and held a gun!

For those of you who have not yet whipped out your calculators, this is a total of $234.91 per day for me and my automobile to be guests of this hotel!

Now the rooms at the Marriott were nice, but nothing special. In short, they looked just like hundreds of other hotels I have stayed in over the years. They were not bigger, they were not fancier, and there was no free breakfast included. Oh yeah, the hotel's restaurant prices... I'll get to those in a moment.

Most genealogy conferences start at 8 or 9 AM. Therefore, most out-of-town attendees who wish to attend as many sessions as possible must travel the day before and stay overnight the evening before the opening session. The last session at most conferences ends at 5 or 6 PM of the last day. Again, most out-of-town attendees who wish to attend everything must stay overnight the last evening after the closing session. Therefore, a four-day conference typically requires a five-night hotel stay.

My five nights at the Marriott cost me $1,174.55!

Now, lets talk about restaurant prices. Meals in downtown hotels are usually ridiculously expensive, and the Philadelphia Downtown Marriott is no exception. Anyone who eats only at the conference hotel can expect to spend $40 to $70 per day for three square meals. Luckily, this year's conference location had many reasonably-priced restaurants within walking distance, so I only ate one meal in the overpriced hotel restaurant. However, I talked with one wheelchair-bound attendee who had obvious restrictions: he couldn't travel easily to other locations, so he paid an outrageous price for food over the five days he stayed in the hotel.

In addition to the hotel charges, the admission to the four-day conference cost an additional $175 to $225, depending on whether or not the registration was made early. The conference luncheons cost $39 each, and the Friday evening banquet cost an additional $54!

Was my attendance at this conference worth the $1,400+ that it cost me? I don't feel that I received full value for the money that I spent.

I have omitted travel expenses from the above calculations as that obviously varies widely. However, travel is a real expense that nearly every conference attendee must add onto the numbers I have cited.

Now let me tell you the part that really bugs me. I have been to Philadelphia many times in the past ten or twenty years, both for genealogy conferences and for business travel for former employers. I am generally familiar with the area and the geography. I have stayed in probably a dozen or so different hotels in the greater Philadelphia area. I attended the 1997 National Genealogical Society annual conference held in Valley Forge, a Philadelphia suburb. (You can read my eleven-year-old reports at http://www.eogn.com/archives/news9713.txt and at  http://www.eogn.com/archives/news9719.txt.) I can tell you that prices in the suburbs are much cheaper than downtown. The suburban prices aren't cheap by any means, but nobody in the suburbs charges $43 a day for parking. In fact, parking is free at most suburban hotels. Room prices are lower in the suburbs, and so are restaurant meals.

Again, I am writing about Philadelphia, but the same is true for most major cities.

Genealogy conference organizers continue to report declining attendance at the various national conferences and often talk amongst themselves, asking one big question: “How can we get more people to attend these conferences?”

I have what I believe is an obvious suggestion: Let's reduce the bottom-line prices!

I am not talking about the conference admission fees alone; I am talking about the total pricing that conference attendees must pay: conference, hotel, parking, restaurants, everything.

In fact, it is easy to reduce the prices significantly: get out of downtown locations and move to the suburbs. Who wants a conference downtown, anyway? For those out-of-towners who have to fly to the conference city, it makes no difference where the conference is held. Those people will need to ride shuttle buses or taxis from the airport to the conference hotels, and it makes little difference if the final destination is downtown or in the suburbs. Those who drive to the conference will thank the organizers for choosing a suburban location with plenty of available parking and ease of access from major highways. Trust me, nobody wants to drive to a downtown location in a strange city. If asked, I’m pretty sure that most local residents would also voice their preference for a suburban location.

This year's downtown location at the Pennsylvania Convention Center was a joke: approximately eight hundred attendees rattled around nearly-empty halls in a convention center designed for 20,000 or more attendees. Yet the smaller suburban convention center in Valley Forge nicely held the (larger) 1997 National Genealogical Society annual conference, and I bet it is cheaper to boot. Most major cities have multiple convention locations in the suburbs that are suitable for 1,000 to 2,000 conference attendees.

I hate to pick on this year's conference, which was chaired by a man that I have regarded as a good friend for many years. However, I do believe that he and his assistants followed the same path that many of their predecessors have followed: in an effort to be “bigger and better than ever before,” the organizers produced a “high end” conference that is beyond the financial reach of most working folks and retirees. Let's reverse that trend.

Next, even this year there were lower prices available, although I did not take advantage of them. The official conference hotel was probably the highest priced hotel in the area. Several lower-priced hotels within walking distance were available. I don't expect to make that mistake again.

I usually write about major conferences in this newsletter several months in advance of each event. Starting with the next major genealogy event, I hope to list lower-priced hotels in the convention center area and will strongly encourage newsletter readers to stay at the more reasonably-priced hotels. I hope to list room rates, Internet connection fees, and parking fees at each of the nearby hotels.

These advance articles may make me “persona non grata” with the conference organizers, but that's not my first concern. If the cost of attending a conference continues in the current vein, there may not even be enough attendees to make these events feasible.

The conference organizers probably don't want me to publicize cheaper rooms that are not in the "official” conference hotel. In order to obtain better pricing on convention centers, many conference organizers will guarantee to fill a certain number of rooms in the affiliated “official” conference hotel. That is, if the hotel can fill 200 or so rooms for five nights (let's call that one thousand “room nights”), the cost of the convention center is discounted. However, the discount never, ever equals the inflated prices of those hotel rooms. Just like Las Vegas gambling casinos, the odds are stacked such that the house always wins and the guests always get gouged. The total extra revenue derived from over-priced hotel rooms always exceeds the discount offered for the convention center.

Whether I become “persona non grata” or not, I plan to live up to my claim of “The daily newsletter for genealogy consumers, packed with straight talk - hold the sugar coating - whether the vendors like it or not!” In this case, the “vendors” are the conference organizers.

I will also ask you, the readers of this newsletter, to do your part. Please contact the conference organizers of all events you are planning to attend. If you have a feedback form from this year's conference, please fill it out and send it in. Please tell the organizers your opinions of the escalating expenses. Please let your voice be heard. I can't do it alone, but collectively we can make a difference. If you believe that future conferences should be held in lower-cost facilities, please say so.

I'll see you in a suburban hotel at the next conference.

Comments

[Kelsey]

You're article on conference expenses is right on the money!! I was scheduled to attend the conference in Kansas City last May, and in the end decided it was too rich for my blood. The $1500+- one has to fork over for attending any of the major conferences is self-eliminating, meaning many people will not be able to afford to attend. What do the conference planners think is causing decline in attendance? That's sort of a "duh" question. i, for one, sincerely appreciate your thoroughness in covering this topic. Let's hope the planners are listening!

[Bob Schimmel]

For the amount of money mentioned above, an individual could subscribe/obtain membership to several genealogy specific libraries. They could also pay the expensive annual fee to Ancestry.com, buy some good books, a few genealogy magazines, and have money left over. The name of this game is furthering personal family information. Giant conventions in far away cities do little to help such efforts.

[Bob Schimmel]

For the amount of money mentioned above, an individual could subscribe/obtain membership to several genealogy specific libraries. They could also pay the expensive annual fee to Ancestry.com, buy some good books, a few genealogy magazines, and have money left over. The name of this game is furthering personal family information. Giant conventions in far away cities do little to help such efforts.

[Pat Fletcher]

I'm very glad you spelled out the problems and gave us the exorbitant total. In the 40 years i've been serious about this, i have attended only two genealogy conferences: one was in my home city, so i stayed home and did not pay for any of the meals; the other, a 2-day event on a 3-day weekend, was in a very small city on my way to visit family. I thoroughly enjoyed both conferences, and learned a lot. Consequently, i have considered many other genealogical conferences, but i am not a professional and must limit my expenditures on any hobby. [grin] Will any conference consider a setting that is near a campground? Those who can afford the hotel can stay there. The rest of us will grill burgers for dinner.

[David W Webster]

And if you're travelling from Europe, add on another $1,500 to $2,000 for the air fare, over and above internal air fares in the USA, so guess why there aren't many delegates, or presenters for that matter, from Europe !

[Nancy]

Right on Dick. I spoke with several folks at the conference who were appalled at the added costs of taxes and parking. It broke the bank for me, and I'll have to give serious consideration before attending future events. Suburban locations make more sense, and I like the suggestion of being near a camp ground. It is time we think out of the box.

BTW, I've never been requested to complete an evaluation form for speakers, topics, or location. Is there one?? I have plenty to say.

[Linda Stienstra]

It's the exhibitors who suffer in the long run. They pay the costs of attending, plus all the extra expenses involved with their set-up, etc. If the attendees are feeling the pinch of the costs of attending, they are not going to spend any extra $$ on the product or service. Regretfully, I bought very little compared with what I've bought in the past.
Where were the evaluation forms?

[Patti Hobbs]

Thanks for being honest about this, Dick. It I was already traveling to Pennsylvania when I decided to come (I was driving to visit a son). So my decision to come was based solely on my ability to find someone to stay with. I did do that and was happy to pay the $4.90 it cost me per day to park at the nearby subway station and for subway passage. I brought my own food for lunch and only purchased a drink on-site, although the last day I sprang for a pretty high-priced salad. I've decided that the only way I will go to these is if I have a local friend to stay with. I just can't justify the costs of the hotel (even if I could afford it!)

[Ingrid]

I just talked to people here in Charleston, and sent a letter to FGS. After reading your posts, I am even more convinced. Have the next annual conference here in Charleston, WV.

Our city is easily accessible by interstate and by plane. You can get from hotels and motels (which are much more affordable here)to our state capital within 10 minutes. Traffic is minimal. The Civic Center is three blocks from the downtown hotels.

Most of our city is Wireless Ready, and free. Our hotels shuttle people, and I have been told that the local trolly will often also shuttle. Costs for meeting rooms are much cheaper. Break out snacks are usually provided at minimal cost.

We are the only state formed from another when part of Virginia went South, and the rest went North during the Civil War. We have an excellent family history center and archives, also within easy reach of the conference center and motels. There are old cemetaries to explore including one as old as Laural Hill in Philly and an old slave cemetary right out of Charleston. The Laura Ingles Highway boasts one of the oldest churches in the state and is still used for weddings and special celebrations. The P.A.Denny, and other riverboats charge a small fee for taking rides, many restaurants, an active theater community, a new arts center, a renovated and people friendly main street, and just terrific people complete what Charleston has to offer.

We may not have the Liberty Bell or Convention Hall, but we have the papers that Lincoln signed making West Virginia a seperate state, two family history centers with good libraries and internet access and a public library with newspapers that go back to 1913 available on readers or microfisch.

I think we would be an excellent choice for the next conference.

[Holly Hendricks]

I helped organize a history-oriented conference in the Boston area for work. It was at a very nice suburban Marriott in Quincy, about 10 miles south of Boston center. Cost was important to our audience, and it was a vast improvement over downtown Boston where the parking and hotel prices are not unlike what you describe in Philadelphia, unless you're a local and know where to look.

This lovely conference center and hotel is atop a very steep hill with a long access drive. It is technically "near the T" (subway train) as a crow flies, but with a long, challenging hike. There was no _regular_ shuttle service up and down, although I think there were some at odd times, perhaps at commuter times or for arrivals and departures. I heard from some unhappy family members who reasonably expected to zip into Boston on the subway without much hassle. Those of us with good-sized cars spent a fair amount of time picking up our car-free T-pass-using co-workers as well as helping attendees. None of us were professional conference organizers, and we learned the hard way.

So convenient access to public transportation is very important to suburban conference attendees and their loved ones who want to visit that expensive city they are not staying in. Suburban centers solve many cost problems, but conference organizers should not make assumptions about public transportation without close investigation.

[Howard Faulkner]

Right On Richard!!
Twenty years ago I was executive director for an international professional/technical association. For ten years it was my responsibility to plan and organize our annual meetings. We had them in Boston, Denver, Minneapolis, Winnipeg, Stockholm, Dallas etc.
We quickly learned that the large down-town hotels were too expensive and quickly moved to beautiful facilities on the outskirts of these cities. The savings was appreciated and our attendance grew each year.
We felt we sacrificed nothing, and the attendees appreciated the savings. Those that desired the night life the city offered used public transportation, taxis, or in many cases the hotel provided small bus service or limo services free or at very low cost.
And it was quite sleeping at night ... a real bonus.

[Elizabeth Kelley Kerstens]

Thank you, Dick. I appreciate your factual comments, and I appreciate all the efforts you went to to bring us Internet access in the exhibit hall wasteland. This was the worst conference experience I have ever had, from the exorbitant costs for EVERYTHING and the greedy unions of Philadelphia, to the fact that the trickle of attendees had no money left to spend in the exhibit hall. I didn't even cover one quarter of my expenses on this trip and I will not be attending FGS conferences in the future. I am unimpressed with what the conference organizers have to offer. I would have been better off to stay at home. Unfortunately, as a rule it seems that conference organizers seem to think of vendors as cash cows and think of our needs last. That needs to stop. I know many vendors were unhappy with their "take" on this conference and are thinking local rather than national. I used to justify poor sales with the fact that I was able to introduce my products to a lot of people. But since there was only a handful of people that came through the exhibit hall, there were no marketing opportunities to be had. So my donations of money to major markets have abruptly come to an end because of this conference. It's too bad. Are the conference organizers reading these comments? I hope so. Let's go virtual...

[Charlene Sokal]

I agree that the costs at the hotel were exorbitant but a bit of checking produced a local garage that charged $18/day, saving $26/day from costs at parking at the Marriott. The Convention Center did have free wifi on the third floor area, saving another $10/day.

The Reading Market, right next to the hotel, was delightful and varied and much much cheaper than hotel restaurants, but for those with mobility issues it would be a problem.

As for being downtown, one advantage is proximity to research libraries,in this case the Genealogical Society of PA and the Historical Society of PA. Yes, I know they are private with all the attending issues but I was disappointed with the limited hours during the conference. I guess I was spoiled with the Allen County Public Library last year, which extended the hours for conference attendees, and the NEHGS in Boston that made special accomodations the previous year. Sometimes these trips are once in a lifetime experiences and combining the opportunity to research with the excellent sessions at the conference is a real bonus. Needless to say the good PR generated for the local institutions is both an excellent memory and could occasionally generate more memberships. In this case the access limitations were frustrating!

I agree with others about the lack of evaluation forms etc. While the conference provides an excellent opportunity for new lecturers, evaluation is part of the process of growth. Same with the handouts provided and syllabi, some were unavailable, some were poorly done. The sessions were super and most of the lecturers did a fine job but it would be helpful to provide feedback to improve presentations,syllabi and handouts.

[Linda Lowrey]

I did not attend this year's FGS Conference. From all the comments I'm glad I did not. However I did attend the one last year in Fort Wayne and would recommend it being held there again. It was, in fact, one of the very best conferences I have attended and the cost was not outrageous. My accommodation was only 10 minutes away in a very reasonable, reliable well-known motel at about $32.00 a night. The Conference Centre was across from the Allen County Public Library, parking was adjacent (last year it was free and is still only a maximum of $7.00 a day). There are three parking lots, one underground. The facility is wheel-chair accessible. Needless to say, the staff at the Allen County Public Library were exceedingly helpful and continue to be so. Fort Wayne is not a huge city and accessible to many people from Canada as well as the USA. Many eating areas are nearby. Cindy's dinner also, makes it worthwhile to go there!

[Carol Bickel]

I attended the conference this year in Philadelphia. The syllabus was superb. I loved having it ahead of time. I know I will reference it often. It is the most complete and helpful of all the conferences I have attended, both genealogical and others. The food at the banquet was good. The vendors were friendly and helpful. The market was great for lunch. I did like the fact that we were out of the elements on Saturday. I definitely think there should be speaker evaluation sheets. Every other non-genealogy conference has a feed back system. The convention center was too big for us. I did not mind the walk but I noticed many people complaining. There seemed to be only one bathroom open on the lower level. It was packed after every session. I found the secret was to go up the escalator to the next floor but should I have had to do that in a convention center meant to serve 20,000 people? I’m building up steam. Parking - We knew ahead of time that it was $43 per day. We arrived at noon on Wednesday and at midnight, 12 hours later the valet called to say they could not manage to move our car because of a complicated key system (which we had explained to them upon arrival) Guess my answer. The next morning they offered to not charge us for that night. How nice of them! Here is my finale. I came on Wednesday just so I could go on the tour to the PA Historical Society Library. I had made my reservation but chose not to go to the lunch.. I called FGS the week before to confirm that I was on the tour but not going to the lunch. I spoke to Tina and she said I was all set. When I arrived I found out that the seats were limited and that there would be a drawing for tickets. I did not get to go. I had come a day early and paid the hotel cost just to go on that tour. But all in all, when asked back home about my trip I said, it was good. I made lots of contacts with knowledgeable researchers. I got many of good tips. Most of the lectures were informative and the speakers were very accessible. Patricia Law Hatcher’s session on plats was outstanding. There were some complications at the hotel and it was expensive.

[Dave]

I'm getting a 404 reply when I click on that link for the '97 conference comments, Dick.

[Francie]

I agree with most of the above - especially about the lack of evaluation forms. Most presenters were excellent, but a few needed feedback on how they could improve their presentation skills.

Since I have many ancestors in the Philly area, the sessions gave me a jump start on my research. What I learned about German research was worth the trip. That says to me that I should only attend conferences located in the area where my ancestors lived!

My biggest personal problem was with the syllabus. Having a CD is all well and good, but you then need to bring your laptop to every session. Printing out the sessions I thought I might like to attend does not work for me as I frequently change my mind!!! I brought my CD and my laptop and then purchased the hard copy. Now I was carrying my laptop and a very heavy manuscript!! My preference would be to have a separate book for each day like they did before. Some clever people split this book into four sections - smart!

[SV Anson]

I agree 100% - several of us, who had fully intended to attend the conference, decided not to go this year. The main reason was the cost - between the hotel costs, the additional cost of park the car(s) along with the conference itself - it was just out of range for alot of retirees.
Hopefully, your article will help improve the costs of next years conference so that more of us can attend.
Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention!

[Harry]

If you go to a major east coast city for a conference, it's expensive. But smaller cities like Charleston WV or Manchester NH or Burlington VT or Dulles area of Washington DC all offer lower-cost alternatives. But these low-cost alternatives must be signed up when the conference commits, not later.

[Catpurrson]

One organization I belong to has long circumvented these high costs by holding their conventions/conferences on college campuses where dorm rooms can be had for around $20 a night. I attended the NGS conference in KC this year and although I stayed with family & friends, decided the cost of airline tickets, parking, conference registration far outweighed the conference content. I was sorely disappointed in what was set forth by the so-called experts in the field. Had I had to pay for a hotel, I would have been pitching a fit. It is the first -- and probably last -- such conference I will attend. I could have gone to Europe and done research there for what I spend, sans hotel. As many genealogists are older and many on fixed incomes, the societies need to look for cheaper alternatives. I suggest that they look into colleges. This may mean,however, scheduling conferences between the academic terms or looking to schools that do not offer summer school, but I've never left a conference held by my other organization feeling cheated.

[Michael Pollock]

I generally do not attend major conferences other than those held in cities where I know the "lay of the land", i.e., inexpensive hotels (for example, Washington, DC), do not have to commute (Richmond), or have other reasons for going (I attended a So. Cal. Gen. Soc. conference many, many years ago because it provided me the opportunity to visit with friends and relatives, one of the relatives being am aunt I had NEVER seen because she had moved to California before I was even born), though this year I did not attend either the NGS or FGS Conferences, having good friends in the former and family in the latter, strictly because of my work load.

Had I made reservations for the NGS conference, I almost surely would have had to "forfeit" a significant portion of the fees because after the early registration deadline had passed, I got an assignment on which I worked 60 to 80 hours per week for nearly 6 months and still barely was able to complete the assignment "on time". The same thing could have been true so far as the FGS conference was concerned because while the project which prevented me from attending NGS was essentially completed by then, after the early registration deadline for it had passed, I was informed I might be needed to testify in Court as an expert witness on the aforesaid project. With that project being worth, to my client, $1.8B, and my role critical to its success, if my client had said "jump", I would likely had responded "how high", though those who know me would quickly point out such is out of character for me. Subsequently, the date was pushed back, then I was told that as a result of my report being so comprehensive--60+ pages with nearly 300 pages of supporting documentation--my testimony would not be needed, which would have allowed me to attend, albeit at a higher cost, but also at the further expense of having to asked other clients who had been "on hold" to wait just a little bit longer.

I am seriously considering attending the Raleigh conference in no small part because that is an area I have come to know well enough to know several inexpensive hotels where I might stay. I will be happy to share them with the readers of EOGN, but not until I first confirm that my schedule will allow it, and then confirm my reservations!

Michael E. Pollock

[Chris]

The pricing model for large city conferences is based on corporate budgets. While I'm not justifying it, the high room costs, parking and food is often carried by the person's corporate account in business. Yes it feeds the spirling costs of everything, but the cost is not carried by the person making the reservations and doing the travel. In contrast, most people doing genealogy are hobbyists and don't have the corporate account to fund the trip. So, let's acknowledge the audience the genealogy conferences are serving, and price them accordingly. If we only want professional genealogists attending, price them accordingly, and the attendees can write them off as a busines expense. If the conferences are designed to serve the hobbyists, then drop the cost of attending so more can do so without feeling the financial pain.

[Sandra Tye]

Thanks for your comments, Dick. I, too, have had to skip conferences because of the high cost. The Chicago conference was a particular loss, since all my ancestors come from that area. [The Airport Hotel was nearly as expensive as downtown hotels would be]. The only caveat that I can see about smaller cities/suburbs is transportation cost for out-of-towners from plane/train, etc. to the facility and back again... And also, do please consider those of us with limited mobility...

[Laurie Kender]

I couldn't agree more about big cities - they're highly overrated. I attended a conference in NYC about 10 years ago and stayed at the conference hotel, a Hilton; they grudgingly agreed to valet-park our car, charged us $26/day for the honor, but informed us we would not have "in & out privileges" - in other words, they'd park it when we got there and keep it until we checked out. Chicago has the highest sales tax in the US, not to mention whopping hotel and entertainment taxes - who needs it? And if bargain-motels at bargain prices can afford to give free wi-fi, why do the high-end hotels who charge exorbitant prices to begin with feel the need to gouge for another $10? The better question is, why would I feel the need to pay them all that money?

I also would love to see the conferences center around major research areas, which oddly all seem much more affordable anyway - a win-win. I recall that in Fort Wayne, the Allen County Public Library, one of the premier genealogy research centers in the US, would extend their hours until the middle of the night for the benefit of conference attendees. And the prices all around are reasonable, with the possible exception of the Hilton (sadly, the conference center hotel), which doesn't seem to understand it's in Indiana, not New York. I still refuse to have a steak dinner in the hotel restaurant for $25-30 and be told a potato would be an extra $5 and a salad another $7; I'll happily eat at McDonald's first). There are plenty of other great hotels, just not connected to the conference center. Salt Lake City would be another excellent choice, both for the research opportunities and the more reasonable prices.

Let's have conference planners give us what we really want - more opportunities at less expense.

[Bob Schlachter]

Thanks for your article on the conference. I thought it was expensive but it was my first conference so I didnt' have anything to compare it with. Fortunately, I live relatively close so I took the train from the Baltimore area and was able to leave my bag at the front door so I didn't have to pay for the extra night. I was also surprised at the extra charge for the internet. The less expensive hotels usually include internet service in their price. The room tax also provided a bit of sticker shock. I never saw any evaluation forms. I would have liked to have had one. One evening there were two lectures scheduled for the same room. One lecturer quickly grabbed a large empty room for her few attendees while the other lecturer was stuck with the overcrowded smaller room. I can understand how the scheduling error could have happened but the lecturer with the skeleton attendance should have been courteous enough to switch rooms.

[Barbara]

Thank you for your comments, Dick. I live in northern NJ and Philly is only a little over an hour away. This was a conference I could get to without excessive transportation costs. However, the price of admission was beyond my means, nor would I have stayed in such pricey hotel rooms.
I hope the word gets out to conference organizers that the majority of genealogy enthusiasts are retirees with limited incomes. Organizers and hotels can charge high prices and we can continue to stay home. I did.

[Janice M. Healy]

One point you failed to mention was the union folks and the high prices of moving a half of a pallet of books from the back door to the venders booth all he lacked was a pallet jack and I would have happily moved it for him for free. Something needs to change.

This one vender paid $1200 + to move that pallet of materials to his booth much less what it cost him to ship it. There is no way he could recoup his costs. I just wonder how much Ancestry and family search had to pay to move their many large items in and out?

Before you got there Internet in the Marriot over at FedEx was $0.25 a Min. As much as I needed to be on line to check on business and family there was no way I could pay that. I don't attempt to travel 3000 miles with my computer as I am an aid to a disabled person so have my hands full already. With water going at $2.40 a bottle and Juice $2.75 as it was I bought very little to send home. The cost of necessities just ate up my money along with everyone else's leaving nothing for the fun stuff like books, and how to things. If I didn't work my way, there is no way I could attend any of these wonderful conferences. They are great learning opportunities for everyone but the cost is getting to far out of line, which is why they societies hosting them are not making ends meet.

[Debra Fleming]

Bravo Dick Eastman for voicing the drama that has been going on inside my head since I arrived in Philly! Lucky for me, I made my plans to attend the week before which left me unable to get a room at the Marriott. After pricing the hotel next door and finding the price to be over 1000 dollars (just for lodging) I decided to take a chance and booked on hotwire which found the Raddison in Rittenhouse square and I walked to the conference every morning which was a fantastic experience to see the city. I found the market after a day or so and confined all my meals to there which kept the cost down. I still spent over a grand overall and I felt sorry for the vendors because that limited what I bought from them. I did not spend as much at this conference with the vendors for two reasons---the economy has tightened my belt and the extras for the FGS conference tightened it even more. $30 for the syllabus is too much for a book they print too many of every year and $39 for a luncheon is just wrong especially when those talks are lighter than the workshops themselves. I also found the recycling of topics by the speakers to be rampant and had trouble finding something I wanted to see that I haven't seen before. I will rethink the next conferences that are planned and probably go for Samford instead. I need bang for my buck as does everyone.

[BWR]

Let's be brutally honest: there are different agendas and different needs involved in every conference. Regrettably, each set of interests will, in some fashion, both overlap and conflict with the needs of others.

Sponsoring organizations are working to fulfill their "best" purpose in providing educational opportunities for their members and adherents (non-members who utilize the organization's good offices to access the educational offerings). They are working very hard to provide the best possible experience, with the best possible educational opportunities so as to make each conference the best ever presented. That's not hyperbole, that's the wish at the outset of every conference planner's work. And they must do that at the least possible cost.

Conference attendees want to have the best possible experience and learn about areas of particular interest, while being appropriately entertained. They have variant desires and needs with regard to facilities access, the long-hall (haul) frogmarch, diets, meals and rooms. And they reasonably expect it will be done for as little money as possible.

Speakers hope to cover their meeting expenses, make scintillating and insightful presentations, make contacts to expand their professional network, and reunite with colleagues and friends. They, too, are also conference attendees, and wish for all the reasonable expenses and physically-near spaces and amenities.

Conference centers and convention halls, in many cases joint ventures between cities and local businesses, want to showcase their cities in the best possible light. And make money. They want conference visitors to feel good about their cities and return often. And spend money. They hope conferences or conventions regularly return to their specific venues, in order to prove--like gaining a professional sports franchise--that the city is historically important and culturally vital in this day and age. None of these are bad things, necessarily, but they are part and parcel of the host cities' needs.

In order to keep expenses down for attendees, conference hosts and organizers have held speakers' fees at the same level for more than 15 years. The recent spike in travel expenses means that any effort to raise the speakers' fees has been deferred to help pay higher airfares.

This analysis, of course, does not begin to address the vendors' issues. I'm not a vendor and so wouldn't choose to speculate on their goals. Undoubtedly, they hope to make money to offset the hassle of packing up merchandise and carrying it to the conference site, and perhaps even a bit of profit.

In that case, the speakers are also like vendors. For some, genealogy work is their sole income. For others, it's a hoped-for supplement, though likely it's more expense than income. Once again, the networking and connections that lead to other speaking, writing and conference engagements may be the longer-term benefit.

Conference organizers need to bring in a broad-enough array of speakers and presenters so as to attract the widest possible number of attendees, which means the compensatory pie must be divided into as many sufficient slices as possible. No attendee, no vendor, no speaker, to my view, comes out of these conferences without expense. It is a very rare participant, indeed, who makes money off of such a setting.

I will argue with Dick's implication that boycotting the host hotel will help. If those room numbers he mentions are not met, then the host organizations will be financially liable to make up the difference. Neither of the national bodies have the reserves to absorb a great hit on these types of functions. Maybe the near-term goal of affecting change by diverting from the primary venue seems a good one, but I cannot think it is one that will be healthy for the groups. I do not dispute that the financial model may need to be rethought or reevaluated, but doing so is not a turn-on-a-dime proposition.

Contracts for venues and host cities are often signed two or three years in advance. The 2009 and 2010 venues are already firm [Raleigh, Little Rock, Salt Lake City and Knoxville (I think)]. No matter what one thinks of such ideas, a move to a college-based environment, or even a campground setting, could happen no earlier than 2011 or 2012.

There's room for healthy debate, which will serve all parties and their interests well.

[BWR]

And one last thought...keep in mind that the venue (host location) has to have sufficient airline service and interstate highway access so that attendees and speakers can get in from out of town with some ease. There are some wonderful cities that would be suitable...if only people could get there.

[Karen Daniel, CGSM]

I agree completely with your assessment as to costs at over-priced downtown venues in large cities. I stopped going to most national conferences several years ago because of escalating prices. This does not fit easily into the budget of many professional genealogists. While I certainly miss the networking, classes, and chance to see new products on a yearly basis, I am nearing retirement or at least semi-retirement, so the value for the dollar is negligible, not to mention having the hassle of navigating through a large city's airport, traffic, etc. This will only worsen as airlines continue to cut flights in their various markets and their prices continue to rise. I agree organizers should look at smaller markets outside of large metropolitan areas and perhaps a day shorter conference. Smaller markets often have almost as much to offer and may actually be easier to work with. They are truly glad you are there, and go out of the way to provide excellent services. I have found this to be the case numerous times at state-held events.

[Judie Lauer]

Thank you thrice for your comments and action plan! I attended the NGS conference in Kansas City--my first--and was gobsmacked by the cost of everything. I told my husband not to belch for fear of a hotel surcharge! The speakers were wonderful and I learned much, but I would have been ever so happy staying in Independence near the fabulous Midland Public Library where I really burned up the stacks, not to mention the copy machine. I understand the difficulties of conference planning and the desire to have a "destination" which might, in itself, be a draw. But please! I couldn't afford to purchase anything in the Exhibit Hall because my husband was roving about somewhere breathing the hotel air at God-only-knows what expense! I came home feeling good about what I had learned, but convinced I could not afford to attend another national conference. As mentioned by others, the money I spent could have covered so many other purchases and travels specific to my own genealogical journey.

[Bobby Fortenberry]

Thanks for your comments on "downtown" conferences. I resolved several years ago that large conferences in a downtown setting were a loss for me as I usually get so frustrated that I absorbed very little information. Vendors should realize that if I spend all my "egg" money on the extras, I have little left to buy their wares.

[Louise]

I agree with you totally, Dick. Thank you for taking a stand!

I attended last year's conference in Ft. Wayne. It was the first major conference I've ever attended.

I went mainly because a friend had attended the previous one in Boston. She also told me how much it cost her! I was shocked and knew I could not afford to spend that much money. So I did not stay in a downtown motel. I found free parking (the library extended that courtesy, though did not publicly announce it that I know of). I found many affordable eating establishments nearby.

My friend also attended The Ft. Wayne conference and told me the number of vendors were fewer than in Boston and she was disappointed by that. I was surprised myself that some I expected were not there. I also thought there would be more attendees.

I enjoyed myself but overall I was disappointed and determined not attend another FGS conference. While the majority of the speakers were wonderful, there were some I was very unhappy with. Some were unprepared, had technical difficulties or were not particularly professional. I did not feel I came away learning anything new due in a big part by the length of the lecture. They should be given more time for both the lecture and questions. Also the size of the meeting rooms did not always match the number of attendees. Some of the most popular talks were in the smaller rooms and I was unable to attend at least one while literally next door there was a small group lost in a big room.

The ACPL was wonderful and I spent as much of my time possible there. They extended their hours for us and were very helpful. I would have accomplished more skipping more programs and spending the time in the library which I did on the last day.

I had briefly considered going to Philly but decided against it. I had two friends that definitely wanted to go. One decided it was just too expensive.

How about smaller conferences but having them more often?

[Barbara Vines Little]

Conference planners do read comments and listen; however, small conferences with no promise of a repeat performance do not have many bargaining points with hotels and convention centers. Both NGS and FGS are trying to provide a good educational experience, near research facilities (Philadelphia was full of them) as well as accommodate people with limited mobility (something most college campuses don't do well).

Hopefully attendees in Raleigh, North Carolina, 13-16 May 2009, will find the free wireless in the lobby area of the convention center and at one of the conference hotels (which is only $79 a night with free parking); (we tried but the others wouldn't budge) a welcome change. The new Marriott is only $124 and both it and the newly-renovated Sheraton ($120) offer free parking for one car per room.

There's also a free shuttle in the downtown area and tons of restaurants to choose from. AirTran, Jet Blue, Northwest and Southwest provide some reasonable choices for flights.

The newly renovated NC Archives and Duke and UNC offer some great research opportunities.

Now for the downside-mid-May is graduation time in Raleigh so you may not have a whole lot of options if you wait too long to get your hotel reservations.

We'd love to see you in Raleigh and are interested in your comments (lund@ngsgenealogy.org). We can't promise to cover everything on your wish list, but we do try.

Barbara Vines Little, CG
NGS National Conference Chair, Raleigh 2009

[Karen Weston]

Amen! I'm lucky enough to be in a job where I am partially reimbursed for attendance at genealogical conventions. However, the university only pays $60 - $90 per night for lodging (in-state or out-of-state) and $34 per day for food. When the room costs twice the allowance and the banquet alone cost the whole per diem, it becomes very difficult to justify to the taxpayers. All costs should be made known to attendees up front, including parking fees. I had a choice betweeen driving the 90 miles to NGS-Chicago or taking a bus - I drove, but wouldn't have if I'd known about the fee.

[Diane Gagel]

The costs for the average attendee is getting out of range and planners need to keep this in mind. In Ohio, we (Ohio Genealogical Society) keep in mind this issue and locate our annual conference in hotels with larger conference centers, rather than city conference centers. These hotels have free parking. Our annual conference is 2.5 days with national speakers, and we average 500-600 attendees each year. OGS moves the conference around the state so all Ohio residents have a chance to attend 1-2 conferences every 4 years. Many attend every year. We may not have as many speakers or sessions as the nationals, but the attendees get the biggest bang for their buck. If you have never attended the Ohio conference, you have missed a great genealogical experience.
www.ogs.org

[Loran Braught]

Dick, based upon the huge number of comments with generally confirming rants, we all know that the cost of conferences has grown out of reach for most amateurs and now even for the professionals. It is abundantly obvious that your recommendation to avoid the high end locations is mandatory. Now let's assume for the moment that will get heard and accepted in action very soon. Then what?

Looking at things from the perspective of enriching, increaseing, supporting, and enhanding genealogy, what is the value of conferences, or even the value of genealogical socieities that provide conferences? Is it indeed wise to even suggest dropping these events and/or those organizations? One thing for certain, any conference held any place will cost money; almost certainly more than surfint the internet at home for the same time period. For that matter, the same could be applied to even small local genealogical societies. Why pay the cost for those things when staying home and working on our own is so much cheaper and easier?

I am not a professional genealogist, not even an expert amatuer genealogist, but I guess I could do almost all the research I need without our local society, the state or national societies and probably never attend another conference. Why should I care if we all avoid genealogy societies and genealogy conferences?

Yes, we could often do all that we want in isolation: less cost, less hastle; less time. I submit that we could, but we would not. I look at the societites and the conferences as my best motivators, my shots in the arm to minimize my addiction to genealogy and the many unseen skills or bits of information that I almost always get from the fellowship and exchanges with other genealogists. Perhaps we will either use it or lose it when we contemplate, seriously contemplate, dropping those gatherings from our genealogy tools.

Personally, I hope to get at least one new idea (or refreshing attention to an old unused but useful idea) per day from any genealogy gathering. In some cases I can use that idea for a lifetime. Perhaps I can (and have) done okay without it, but new and refreshed skills are not the only attraction that societies and conferences or workshops offer to me. I also benefit from the informal genealoty chats that I can not get at home. I also benefit from the association with others whe agree that I am not nuts for spending valuable time, space, and money on my hobby. I also benefit from seeing others thinking that getting to know my ancestors as they personally laid the foundations of my very life and as they factually contributed to the routines of my world, and as they actually had a peice of the puzzle in historical events that could (not always do, but coult) provide experience for related decisions in my world and even for my descendant's world.

There can be no question about needing frugal options in maintainting and building genealogy resources. Why pay huge costs for anything that could retain the same qualities at less cost? That is a no-brainer. But if we don't think the qualities of conferences, workshops, societies, libraries (and they are cheap either, you know), or even the internet are worth the cost, what will we lose? What do care about what would be lost?

This is far more than I intended to say when I started, but it seems to me that while we lament the high cost of any of these resources, we need to at least think a bit about the huge cost of not having them, not having each other, not have the renewed pep and values that such resources tend to introduce into our genealogy. Predictably my position is to carefully evaluate how to preserve the assets and benefits against the costs of anything we do, including the options and consequences of doing nothing together.

People who attend genealogy events and spend much of their time shopping at local stores or sites or in the too expensive rooms are not about to gain much of value from the events, but most who get to any genealogy event are sincere about getting something useful out of their event participation. I expect to pay the cost for others who have expenses to share their knowledge. When I offer my experience to contribute to an event I may expect for my expenses to be added to the cost of the facilities and resources. Free loaders should not think that they have any rights to any load, etc.

I predict that most genealogists do not want to eliminate events or societies, but they need some frugality in the mix. We may need to compare our costs to things like participating in golf or other hobby optins. Sure we can meet at a local coffee shop and "pool our ignorance", but exposure to experts and quality (or just plain fun) resources (exhibitors, etc.) sure adds a valuable element to our time and costs of getting together.

We sure are not mandated to attend genealogy events or socities, just as we sure are not required to have cars, telephones, etc. It is not a matter of survival, but an issue of quality.

And to those who complain about a conference (do not get evaluation forms, etc.) you need to volunteer to help preparing for them (for others). Iocola wisely said to either "lead, follow, or get out of the way". I notice that most complainers are not helpers, and rarely are they the leaders. Paying your registration fees and living costs does not at all pay the cost of the volunteers who plan, prepare, produce, and clean up at those events.

A recent workshop I heard some folks complain that the event was "in the boonies" where the had only fast-food, small bedrooms with small TV and no free internet, etc. etc. I guess they won't attend the next event held cheaply away from the metropolitan frills. No way to please everyone who is not primarily interested in the genealogical benefits.

We don't have to go to these things, but they will soon not be available if there is no focus on what and how we do them so that there will be valuable content and frugal costs.

Too much here, sorry. I am obviously anxious to improve, not bouycot conferences and societies with their essential costs. I need to personally contribute more than evaluations to these events and I need to help make them better with more than my Monday quarteback assessments if they are to be available at all. Have I volunteered? Do I help?

P.S. I wonder if the professionals and vendors would lose anything important if we lost conferences, workshops, etc. that help expose their value? What is their net value from such events (including beyond that day, etc.)?

[Dave McDonald CG]

In re: Loran's question in the post script...

The value I get as a speaker and participant is not in the financial net value (my wife thankfully tolerates my "loss leader" activities in genealogy), but in the intangibles of friendship and the ability to contribute something to the wider community. For some, that's clearly not enough. In my case, it is.

[Hilary Henkin]

Dick, I know you were at the So Cal Gen society conference this past June, in Burbank, Calif. Perhaps you could compare that experience, in a suburban area, with your recent post.

Chris mentioned that hotel prices are based on a corporate budget. This also is reflected in selecting a conference location based on the proximity of nice, corporate-appropriate restaurants and entertainment venues. Maybe it's just me, but I rarely leave the hotel, and I certainly don't go out partying after a day's events.

I think part of the decision should be based on what research facilities are available. To schedule a conference outside New York city or Washington DC, where the main genealogical research facilities are downtown, makes far less sense than in Chicago, where there are few research facilities downtown. I was in Chicago in August for a genealogical conference, and I'd have like to visit the Waldheim cemeteries and NARA, but both were 30-60 minutes from the conference hotel.

Perhaps organizers should consider locating conferences nearer to major airports (but this can also be expensive), or near major genealogical research facilities, which may not be downtown.

[Gmama]

I live in Raleigh and will be a volunteer at the NGS conference next May. Hotel rooms will be hard to find as all 3 major universities have graduation that weekend. That is UNC, Duke and NC State. No trains into inter city but we do have buses. The convention center opened this past weekend with Hanna as added excitement. I hope North Carolina will be a better experience for all. I love living here.

[Bob Emnett]

By and large, I agree with your comments. My wife and I are both interested in this fascinating hobby and are both very active volunteers in the St. Louis Genealogical Society (StLGS). So when we travel to a convention, our hotel costs are mainly reduced in half (per person). I know others who partner up on hotel rooms in this type of situation. Also, if we drive, it is also two-for-the-price-of-one, although it may sometimes mean an extra hotel night somewhere and extra meals.

We NEVER stay at the conference hotel. I, and I am sure many others, will appreciate Dick's intent to publicize cheaper alternative hotels in the area of future conferences. We have always found that information in AAA tour books or online. One can use Google to find hotels close to any location and there are many online travel resources to get this info.

In addition to our vacation travel, I was on the road for many years before retiring, averaging 47 weeks out of town a year for about 6 of those years. I have almost never in all that experience found a HOTEL restaurant that I did not feel was overpriced. Any genealogy conference should provide a list of local restaurants. I know StLGS does so for their annual conference and that FGS did for the 2007 conference in Fort Wayne. The same resources noted earlier will also give one clues about an areas restaurants. Want to know which ones are good? Check out www.chowhound.com. Before we go anywhere we will be staying for more than one night we do enough online research to have the lay of the land and know our restaurant choices. As for conference lunches and dinners, we have only attended one of those ever. We find them to be overpriced. For the $39 Dick cited, one could get a very nice meal at an excellent restaurant, at one's own table, in a much better ambiance. So, to attend one of those luncheons, the speaker would have to be outstanding, on a subject or intense interest ... or one goes for the camaraderie and recognizes what one is paying for.

I agree that moving conferences out of the higher cost areas makes sense. I do wonder how many suburban conference centers have enough hotel accommodations in reasonable walking distance - to avoid the necessity for attendees who fly in to rent a car or take a taxi. Although even in that case, the organizer may be able to arrange shuttle buses for an extra fee.

Dick is right in that nearly all hotel chains provide no cost internet connections - even most Motel 6 units! However, we recently stayed at a Marriott in the Washington, D.C., area and free broadband internet connection was also provided free there. Another Marriott we considered in that area charged - I think $10 a night, that seems to be a pretty standard fee. So the charging policy is NOT chain-wide, at least in the case of Marriott. We found out about the charges and our choices using some of those online resources.

I fully acknowledge that our way of travel to a conference is not as easy to do for someone with mobility issues.

Perhaps the most important point in Dick's article is that conference organizers must understand the full conference costs and find ways to reduce that total. In the larger scheme of an event that hopes to attract beyond the "neighborhood," the attendance fees are often a very small part of the total expense picture. However, that small fee must still provide a program of value. We have passed on conferences, more over our perceived content relevance (to us, of course) than cost.

[Jami Davis]

I haven't attended any national genealogy conferences due to the cost, just local one day-type "conferences." I have, however, attended many national and regional conferences in my field. The best I have ever attended--and which I have attended annually for the past few years--has been held in the same hotel for the past twenty years. This Sacramento-based conference is attended mostly by people in CA, but we do have some national and international guests. I think what makes it so good is that the hotel knows how to support this conference. Many of the of attendees are disabled and the hotel staff have gained experienced in meeting our needs. They also serve lunch as part of the conference, managing 1000-1200 meals in about 1.5 hours during which we also have a keynote. I agree with the comment that holding the conference in Fort Wayne or another small city with good research facilities would be a good plan. I also think sticking with the same city or alternating between a few would streamline planning and provide a better conference experience.

[Gordon Banks]

I don't go to genealogy conferences, but my professional organization has 10,000 attendees, so can only be held in the larges venues in North America. I've never stayed in the conference hotel. Generally, the price of a B&B or a smaller hotel or motel plus a rental car is much less than staying in the conference hotel. In areas where the conference center has exorbitant parking, there is usually cheap public transportation. Usually, a B&B is more pleasant than some sterile conference hotel.

[Bob Emnett]

Louise commented:
*************
I did not feel I came away learning anything new due in a big part by the length of the lecture. They should be given more time for both the lecture and questions.
*************
I think the problem here is not so much the length of time as much as that SOME speakers do a poorer job of managing the time/content ratio and/or of controlling questions within their lecture.

Louise again:
*************
Also the size of the meeting rooms did not always match the number of attendees. Some of the most popular talks were in the smaller rooms and I was unable to attend at least one while literally next door there was a small group lost in a big room.
*************
There is very little the organizers can do about this. I know the St. Louis Genealogical Society (StLGS) for its annual conference, and I believe all the national societies, ask pre-registrants which sessions they plan to attend. StLGS, and I suspect the others, then assigns speakers to room sized in accordance with that information. However, the pre-registration responses are not binding, and organizers cannot control the end results.

[Dae Powell]

I attended an excellent one-day conference whose only speaker was Hank Z. Jones, FASG. It was affordable; parking was free; and a box lunch was provided. KUDOS to Fort Worth, Texas, and the Genealogical Society there!

Happy Dae.
http://www.ShoeStringGenealogy.com

[Linda Kleback]

Thanks for sticking up for the attendees, Dick! I've worked on a lot of state conferences that really tried to keep costs down. These bigger organizations need to rethink how they set up their events. They should reflect the needs and wants of their membership, many of whom are retirees. Doing things the "way we always have" needs to change if these groups hope to survive financially.

[Charles Hansen]

I agree with almost all the comments here. I live in a midsized city in the middle of a lot of farming area. We hosted the US Figure Skating National Competition a couple of years ago. We put in a application along with with Boston and Los Angeles for the competition. They picked us for the same reasons you outlined above lower cost and the possibility of breaking even on the competition. Well our city had the highest number of pre registrations in their history and we beat the record for number of tickets sold for any US Figure Skating competition. Because of the large number of tickets sold they had some problems with the mass of people (would FGS or NGS like that kind of a problem) but it still was a very good competiton. By the way because of our last showing the US Figure Skating Nationals will be held here in Spokane in 2010 just weeks before the 2010 Olympics.
Charles

[Gerald Eberwein]

Right on, Dick!

You are right about the downtown conference centers. They are very overpriced and nothing extra is received; unless you count bad attitudes and disappointment in there as a positive thing.

First, they are hell to get to by car. Parking is atrocious and not secure. Most of the lower cost hotels have 24 hour security on their parking - that's why the want your plate number; most have free internet; most have some form of free breakfast; many have free morning newspapers; most have free shuttles to bus, train and airport depots; most will take the time to give free directions or suggestions for wherever you want to go; most don't have the huge tax burden the big cities apply; and, they often are in the middle of a whole boatload of restaurants, clubs and stores.

One thing the conference organizers might look at is a network of lower cost hotels in the conference city and charter a shuttle service from the center to those places. I think most conference attendees that stay at the other places would gladly pay $2-3 per day for the shuttle. The conference organizers could also entice some corporate sponsor to fund the ride. And, the sponsor can be anyone - not just genealogy connected.

[Grove Sandrock]

I attended the FGS conference in Fort Wayne in 2007 and really enjoyed the experience.

In considering this year's conference I decided not to attend due to the expense.

Your comments are absolutely correct!

[Kip Sperry]

I was very surprised to see that FGS picked downtown Philadelphia for a national genealogy conference. I knew it would be very expensive to have a conference in that city. I hope they did okay financially with this event. I know national confererences are expensive, but I do plan to attend future FGS conferences.

[Suddie Bill Mumford]

Over the past dozen years I've been involved in the planning of a number of genealogy conferences locally. We never considered the major downtown facilities for the reasons you mention in your article. Our initial experience with the smaller suburban facilities worked well. The hotel was glad to get our business and did everything possible to ensure we would come back. We made no room commitments nor did we include any expensive luncheons or banquets. We discussed the eating facilities for our attendees with the food and beverage people and left it up to them to make whatever arrangements they wished. The result was a very good inexpensive buffet that was well received by all. Since that first conference much has changed. The suburban hotels now demand room commitments and if you do not wish to schedule luncheons and dinners they will not even discuss any facility rental. In other words, they are carbon copies of the major hotels. Facility costs were one of the reasons our planned conference for last year was canceled.

[Sharon Meker]

Dick, I'd sure like to see the size of that stockpile of sugar coating you've got saved up. Thanks for "holding" it all these years.

[Rebecca Duncan]

Thanks for your candor, Dick. I have had similar thoughts since the conference in Kansas City this May. Both my husband and I stayed at the conference hotel for convenience sake. The room was fine but small. No refrigerator, microwave or coffeemaker. We quit eating in the hotel restaurants quickly as we found the service to be deplorable, the food mediocre at best and terrible overpriced. We arrived on Tuesday and left Sunday to drive to Springfield where my dad's father is from. I had never been to the town he was born in and it looked to me like Springfield had a pretty good genealogy collection at the library from my advanced sleuthing on the web.

We stayed at a Residence Inn where we had 2 bathrooms a separate bedroom, fully stocked kitchnette (with full sized refrigerator!)/dining area combination and a small sitting room. Both the bedroom and the sitting area had TVs. And get this...we had windows that actually OPENED! And wifi? Free....it was free at the library as well which, as it turned out, was extraordinary in the services it provided and the resources available. I got some great articles and found info I had hoped to find for several years.

That experience really made me question going all the way to Raleigh next year to repeat a "high-end" hotel experience. I can't quote the charges for each facility, because I don't store that kind of information (limited room in the ol' noggin'), but suffice it to say Springfield was much cheaper and I imagine the community needed the money more than Kansas City. I came back telling folks that the conference was good, but my local experience was extraordinary. There's got to be a happy medium somewhere somehow. I think that I may get more out of going on local research junkets fodr a lot less money than I have thus far from any conference.

Regards, Rebecca

[Cindy Hineman Davis]

You go, Dick!!
Hello FGS...and NGS...think about the numbers!! If you want more attendees, change your approach. Why not alternate between Ft. Wayne and Salt Lake City?? How many people actually get a chance 'during' the conference to research? Focus on the conference itself and let those attending decide if they want to come early for the local benefits.
Sorry to the vendors...I had much less to spend, too!

[Dick Eastman]

---> Dick, I know you were at the So Cal Gen society conference this past June, in Burbank, Calif. Perhaps you could compare that experience, in a suburban area, with your recent post.

That would require an entire article for a proper comparison, but the abbreviated version is: "It was a worthwhile and reasonably-priced experience."

The conference hotel again was a Marriott. The rooms were NOT cheap; I believe the room rate was about the same as last week's Marriott in Philadelphia. However, the parking was free and there were several economy restaurants across the (busy) street. It was a shorter conference; I didn't stay there five nights. I found my bottom-line total expenditure per day was less in Burbank than that of a downtown location in a major city.

- Dick Eastman

[Rick Allen]

I did not attend this year due to cost. I have attended several in the past but the organizations really need to consider ALL costs to the attendees when selecting a location. Many times it seems they try to couple research facilities with the location. If someone wants to do research, make that a separate trip as not all attendees will be interested in the locale anyhow. The facilities are usually too crowded at that time to do any meaningful research anyhow. Consider smaller cities (suburbs, etc.) in the future. Not everyone who attends is a professional genealogist who can write off the expense. Some people are hobbyists with jobs who are already sacrificing vacation time to attend. Others are retired on fixed incomes.

[Patti Hobbs]

I had thought that going to a research area would not be fun while attending a conference with a lot of other people interested in researching. Does not having a conference in a place such as Salt Lake or Fort Wayne not lead to over-crowding at the libraries?

[Wanda Sinclair]

Why not get them to hold them at universities or colleges?

I have been at many genealogy conferences, over the years, here in Ontario, held at many universities or colleges? The residences are way cheaper then hotels & motels. And with many new residences having the washrooms in the rooms rather than co-op.

Wanda Sinclair
Rexdale, Ontario

[Wanda Sinclair]

Why not get them to hold them at universities or colleges?

I have been at many genealogy conferences, over the years, here in Ontario, held at many universities or colleges? The residences are way cheaper then hotels & motels. And with many new residences having the washrooms in the rooms rather than co-op.

Wanda Sinclair
Rexdale, Ontario

[jan]

At least you could write all or some of the expense of the conference off as a business expense. Unlike the rest of us, who paid and arm and a leg pursuing our hobby.

[Bobbi]

You definitely hit the nail on the head. I've looked at the notices for many of these conferences and wanted to go. Once I've figured out how much they were going to cost I've had to pass them up.

The one I will be going to is the cruise in October from NY to San Juan. At least I will have the pleasure of the cruise when I am not attending lectures. I am looking forward to meeting you.

Bobbi

[Lois Sparling]

I attended my first genealogy conference in the US last spring in Kansas City. Because the US$ was way down against the Canadian $ at that time, the overall cost was quite reasonable for me. I was nevertheless shocked by the charge for the luncheons and dinners. I should make it clear that I live in a quite expensive boom town in Canada and am not easily shocked. In addition to the cost, holding these conferences during the week suggests that local working folks are not expected to attend except on the Saturday. That makes some sense for a national conference but much better use could have been made of the Sunday.

[Karen C]

Charles Hansen ...[I live in a midsized city in the middle of a lot of farming area].

From what I understand, FGS is in talks with Spokane, WA for 2010 or 2011. I am also told the initial bid came in extremely high [Labor Day weekend is also the date of another huge event in Spokane] but Spokane is in the process of rebidding it so we'll see what becomes of that. Spokane is an excellent choice. It is the hub of the inland northwest, serving Eastern Washington, North Idaho, Western Montana and Canada. It hosts an international airport, quality/affordable hotels, and adequate ground transportation with an immense amount of recreation (for spouses and family members). Most hotels in Spokane offer free airport shuttles. I have attended events in 3 of the downtown Spokane conference hotels and have never had to pay for parking. Spokane Library houses the sizeable Eastern Washington Genealogical Society. As a genealogy website owner with nearly 2 million visitors a year, and a page for every county in the US, I can say that Spokane County is consistently ranked about 10th to 12th place as the most visited county page on our website.

[Linda Swisher]

A few points:
I recently attended a conference in Indianapolis. Since I missed the early bird deadline, room rates in the hotel on the east edge of town were about $150 per night -- comparable to Philadelphia, apparently.

There are many lovely places that have facilities to host a conference. Some may not have affordable transportation to local research repositories. Other locales may not have local societies willing to host the conference. It's that simple, and that complex. Conferences require large numbers of volunteers to help with registration, greet, answer questions, make introductions, direct crowds, serve as "gofers," assist with mailings and myriad details. I live near Chicago, where there are many genealogical societies, which would seem a natural fit for a big conference. Not necessarily. Members may go to their local society 15 minutes from home, but not to societies 30 minutes away, or on the opposite end of the metropolitan area, or in congested downtown areas, or in areas with exorbitant parking fees.

Fort Wayne is a wonderful place for conferences. I doubt it was coincidence that the Allen County Public Library hosted the FGS conference just months after the library completed its renovation. How Curt Witcher and staff managed to plan a conference and also showcase the Genealogy Center boggles my mind. (Doing that on an annual basis? I don't think so!)

Post-Internet genealogists have never known a time when joining a society was the only way to share this crazy passion with like-minded individuals; when attending a conference was how we received genealogical instruction and learned about new family history sources and products. Now with the Web, I can trace my family back to the early 1600s in just a few hours AND while I'm in my pajamas! Who needs societies or conferences? (tongue planted firmly in cheek.)

[MA Dell]

We didn't attend the FGS this year, but did attend Fort Wayne last year and other FGS conferences in Salt Lake City and Orlando FL. In all those cities we were able to stay in conveniently close RV parks. Since we travel in our RV from May to Oct each year, our attendance depends on which side of the country we are traveling in Sept as well as whether we like the location of the conference. Even if we had not been in the west this year, Philadelphia would not have enticed us after having struggled with parking in that city years earlier while doing research there.

I concur with the thoughts of those who encourage FGS and NGS to hold their conference in reasonably priced smaller communities. Those who want to do research in nearby larger cities before or after the conference can afford a rental car with the saving on hotel bills. There are a lot of RV genies like us who prefer to avoid metropolitan area.

Dick, check out San Antonio as a conference thought when you are there in Nov. See you then.

[Ann]

I would hope that people would contact FGS/NGS with comments even if there was no survey form. A letter would work just as well.

When the information became available for this year's conference in Philadelphia, I telephoned the hotel and asked for the tax rate. When I added up all the other expenses involved, the decision wasn't hard to make - I didn't attend this year.

I'm hoping to get to Raleigh next year and have made my reservatons for the Clarion at $79 per night - about $40 less per night than the conference hotel. That works for me.

The conferences are set two or three years in advance, so it wouldn't be feasible to change the selected sites, but hopefully those in charge will "hear" us and make selections of sites for future conference that are more affordable to the hobbyist, rather than the professional.

Thanks Dick for writing about the high prices, etc. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the organizers will change so the rest of us don't have to avoid future conferences because of price and facilities that aren't conducive to smaller groups.

[Doris]

Good for you, Dick. This is long overdue, and I hope conference organizers will take notice. I go to many smaller conferences that seem to understand the problem very well. Most genealogists attend conferences to learn and work, not to enjoy the vast amenities offered by the larger hotels and convention centers. We want easy accessibility, affordable and clean hotel rooms in a safe neighborhood with inexpensive local restaurants and decent meeting rooms. Free parking and internet are expected. With prices for everything soaring these days, my luxury vacations are an entirely separate matter. I do not want to combine them with genealogy with one major exception: The Master Genealogist cruises!

Doris

[Kathi D]

The high cost is why I've never attended one of these conferences much as I'd love to. I'd love to see one here in Gettysburg (PA). Just stay away from the Wyndham and the Marriott or the Gettysburg Hotel (Best Western). Although they're outside of the Boro, they're more expensive than the Holiday Inn, Gettysburg Travelodge, or most of the other hotels in the Steinwehr Avenue area. Even the Eisenhower Convention Center is cheaper than the big major hotels.
Maybe someday one will be less expensive enough that I can go!

[Genner12345]

It's not just FGS conferences.

IAJGS (Intl Assn of Jewish Gen Soc) just got my last dollar. The conf last month in downtown Chicago nearly broke my bank. $200/night for a hotel bed is a DISCOUNT?

Next year is downtown Philly, then downtown LA after that. No thanks.

[Debbie]

I vote for national conferences to be held in Fort Wayne. That was the most economical location for me. Chicago (Rosemont) was the most expensive and there weren't any libraries, archives, etc. near by. I spent quite a bit in KC, but my husband accompanied me. With the new library in Independence, MO, perhaps some new hotels will be built there. Maybe a national conference could be held in Independence someday. I pick and choose the conferences that I attend, and a big part of my decision is money. I refuse to pay high prices for hotels, taxes, extras, food. I'd rather spend the money in the exhibit hall. After all, the vendors are there to make money and if people don't spend, some of the vendors might not come back. I do not plan to attend any national conferences next year and may not attend any in 2010. I don't think FGS has released the conference location for 2010 yet, but I hope they have learned a vaulable lesson. I suggest that those who attended, email the organizers to express their concerns and suggestions.

[Harold Henderson]

Thanks, Dick. I enjoyed NGS in KCMO, in part because I stayed at a Super8 in Independence and commuted 12 miles every morning.

One reason to move conferences around every year is that (I believe) a significant proportion of attendees are locals and first-timers. Rotate between Ft. Wayne and Salt Lake and you may draw mostly the regulars.

Genealogy evidently has one foot on the corporate ladder as far as national conferences go, and it doesn't seem to be worth climbing. (Dick's strategy, which I followed on an individual basis, would get us off that ladder in a hurry if generally adopted.) Non-corporate vocations and avocations (tournament chess is another) and their organizations are struggling to adapt to the world with internet -- a world where traditional face-to-face interactions aren't always as essential as they were 10-20 years ago.

I'm finding that if learning is the issue, focused institutes may be more valuable. For learning + general sociability and giving back to the research community, I have profited greatly from nearby state or even county-level one- or two-day meetings, and they're far more affordable. Perhaps that is the wave of the future? Allen County Public Library is doing a lot of programming of this sort; this fall the Lake County (IL) Genealogical Society has a dynamite one-day program with Tom Jones and Dave McDonald. I'm sure other areas can point to similar cost-effective opportunities.

[Zadruga Guy]

Debbie, yes the locations of the 2010 NGS and FGS conferences have been announced.

The NGS conference will be 28 April - 1 May 2010 in Salt Lake City. The FGS conference will be 18 Aug - 21 Aug 2010 in Knoxville, Tennessee.

[Judy]

I am involved with a Genealogy Club in a senior community. We are within driving distance of Philadelphia, (no public transportation). However, the daily cost of the convention, the city driving and the cost of parking was prohibitive for many of us. The starting times were too early, given that we would have a 1 1/2 hr drive. Surburban conference centers are much more accessible, lower parking costs , if any at all , and certainly lower overall conference fees. Having a conference near a major research facility certainly would be a plus.

[Debbie]

Thanks for the heads up on 2010. I only knew about NGS, as that one was announced in KC. I also enjoyed KC and the extra evening activities. I believe the libray had extended hours and there were research and sightseeing trips. A very proper welcome from KC!

What other cities might be possible locations for national genealogy conferences? Maybe we could come up with a list, starting with some that were previously mentioned. Obviously, Salt Lake and Fort Wayne are excellent choices.

[Pam Sayre]

Aw, come on, where else besides Philadelphia (and Boston) can you stand in Ben Franklin's shadow, walk to wonderful research facilities, sample shoofly pie or scrapple in a colorful market, and walk in your ancestors' footprints? I'd save my genie dollars for a couple years to afford one of these big cities, and then think about the bang I was getting for those bucks--more lectures in an hour than some folks have access to in many years, all for only a few dollars.

Our conference organizers and planners work very hard to keep conference registration fees down. They are extremely affordable compared to almost any other activity. The cost of a lecture at an FGS or NGS conference is less than a movie in your home-town theater, for Pete's sake!

I thought hotel rooms at the NGS conference in Nashville way back in 1996 were too expensive, so I stayed out in the burbs. Yes, I got a cheaper room rate and a free breakfast (no one worried about Internet in the olden days). But I missed out on the networking, visiting with other folks from all over the U.S. (and even other countries), and convenience of just walking upstairs and plopping into bed at the end of a weary day. I spent almost as much in gasoline and time commuting to and from the burbs and paying for all-day parking downtown as I saved on the hotel rate. And I missed what would evolve into Ye Olde Genealogy Pub!

NGS President Jan Alpert has written a wonderful article explaining how large genealogy conferences are organized and why some decisions are made, often years in advance. If you'd like to understand the process and why things are done the way they sometimes are, be sure to read Jan's president's column in the October issue of NGS NewsMagazine, coming out in a few weeks.

Meanwhile, thank you, FGS for a fantastic historical setting, one of the nicest conference hotels I've ever stayed in, a solid valuable conference, and free exercise to help with my weight-loss program. I loved Philadelphia!

[Andrea Batcho]

When my cousins (over 60 years old) are in town for Philly research, we stay in NJ and spend the $3 in tolls to cross the river. If your parking was $43.. The hotel we stay at is only $75 before tax and has free wifi. You may not want to drive that far and stay close to the hotel. My advice is to speak to genealogists who live in the area. We're usually a frugal bunch and know how to stretch our money.

Also, if you are on a very tight budget, you can grocery shop near your hotel (in NJ) and bring your lunch.

(I say over 60 yrs old because I'd just drive the 1.5 hrs to Philly from my house and back in one day, but it's too much for them)

[Maureen]

Thanks for the comments, Dick. I've been saying this for several years. Even told FGS people at a couple of conferences. I didn't make it to Phila. this year. A number of reasons, one of them the expense. Back in Dec/Jan, I did explore alternative hotels, but then cancelled plans. I had planned to take Amtrak (from NJ), too far to 'commute', which would have eliminated parking fees.

I've attended several conferences. My first was a Gentech in Boston. Stayed at 'the' hotel, Sheraton. Took Amtrak, it was winter, so no car. didn't bring a laptop. The hotel was nothing special. So, when I later made a trip to Boston for NEHGS, I found a Choice hotel out by the airport, which had free breakfast, parking, internet, and shuttle to the T station. No problems. I also did research out that way, up in Lynn.
And a couple of years ago, another conference in Boston, FGS, they used the Sheraton (of course). If I recall, Room $159, parking $39, internet $10, and overpriced food. So, I found another Choice hotel in Dorchester, with free parking, internet, refrig (good for chilling drinks bought at grocery, rather than buy on site) & breakfast. They offered a shuttle to the T, but since they also had guests who were outpatients at a major hospital in city, they drove the extra couple of blocks and dropped me off as a last, exta stop. All in all, I figure I saved well more than $110/day! And, since I stayed 3 extra days to go to MA Archives & JFK Libray, I was in the right area, where the shuttle took me to the free bus that looped to the library & archives!

In Pittsburg, I had a roommate, stayed at the 'host' hotel. Took Amtrak. No research to do. And, the fare was cheaper than what it would have been for parking my car for the duration of conf.! Nothing special, food expensive. didn't bring laptop, and with the construction, it was a mess! Since the pedestrian bridge wasn't open, LOTS of extra walking. And, can't forget the jackhammers & construction vehicles beeping until midnight or beyond each nite!

In Orlando, I took the auto-train down, stayed 5 extra days, put 700 mi.on the car hitting repositories in 3 nearby counties doing my own research after. I found a Hilton Garden Inn right across the side street from the 'host' hotel, saved about $50/nite! So my hotel didn't have a multi-story birdcage in the lobby ... didn't miss it!
And, I had a microwave & refrig, and free internet! The conf. info didn't even mention alternates, if I recall correctly.

In Nashville, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express about 3 blocks from the convention center. Saved about $50/day on room, and had free internet, free breakfast and free shuttle (if I was lazy or it was too hot to walk :)) That conf. info didn't mention this hotel as an alternate, either. I guess they figured nobody would have stayed at the over-priced ones they did mention.

I agree with other comments that these 'host' hotels cater to expense accounts and they are over-charging, knowing their 'guest' couldn't care less. If things continue to fall off in the economy, and business travel gets cut back, maybe they'll re-think the way they conduct business (one can only hope).

[John Palmer]

Your comments on the conference justified my decision not to attend the Philly conference. As a vendor I normally attend both the NGS and FGS conferences, but when I saw the union rules, the high cost of the hotels, the cost for vendor space, etc, it added up to almost $2,000 in expenses before I would even sell a book. Then, with decreasing attendance (only 800 by your estimate), I never would have met expenses.

Instead I stayed home and sold books on eBay.

However, I do look forrward to being a vendor at both conferences next year.

John Palmer
Michiana History Publications

[Larry Gallagher]

I made resevations early at the Marriott. After I found the cost of parking and added the cost of meals, I decided not to go to the conference and cancelled my hotel resevations. The fact that there was only 800 people at the conference on the east coast should wake the people planning conferences up to the simple situation that the internet plus high costs make a person think twice before going to the conference. We have been to many conferences staring with the Valley Forge Conference but have not been to many in the past few years. Thanks for your evaluation and we hope that the people will listen to you.

[Cindy Bresson]

I certainly agree that conference prices are getting ridiculous. In addition to everything listed above, I had to use the hotel lobby Kinkos to print 8 pages of a file I wanted for a consultation. The cost was above $9.00! I have been attending one major conference per year, but probably will not continue to do so due to rising costs. Having planned several conferences for my own group, I can tell you that even hotels even in smaller cities are focused on parting attendees from their money! Two years ago my group took a close look at Charleston WV, which has a lovely Marriott. I was appalled to discover the hotel wanted $3000 for basically one meeting room. (The price could be lower if we agreed to buy enough of their $50 per gallon coffee.) Apparently all of us need to vote with our feet to get the attention of planners and hotels. I have not and will not attend any conferences luncheons for the same reason: $$$. If Dick Eastman would post information next year about nearby hotels, maybe locals could add their comments; that would be extremely helpful to those traveling from out of town.

[Loretta]

I'm heartened by the comments about Fort Wayne, the Grand Wayne Center and the ACPL, and I agree about the restaurant at the Hilton. I fear things will change in downtown Fort Wayne over the next couple of years, especially during baseball season (all that construction you saw going on in 2007 was for a new baseball stadium downtown).
One thing the ACPL did NOT do was extend the hours for the underground parking garage, closing the door -- no way out -- on schedule even though the last speaker finished only 30 minutes before that deadline and the deadline was not clear to attendees. The doors to the library were locked on schedule on the last day, meaning that if your car was in the garage, you had to walk down the ramp in order to get to your car -- a dangerous enterprise at best. But Jeff Krull is a reasonable man, and I suspect that those two glitches can be somehow addressed. Overtime for the security company, probably, to allow people to walk through the hallway to the elevator that serves the garage and keeping the garage open an additional half-hour would have been a good plan.
There will supposedly be an additional hotel in the next block within the next couple of years. It will be a brand-name hotel but supposedly one with a lower-end price for that chain. I'll try to reserve judgment.
Y'all come back anytime!

[Sandra Studebaker]

I agree with Dick. I had tentatively planned to attend the FGS conference in Philadelphia. I have never been to Philly and was looking forward to visiting the city of brotherly love. (My ancesstors arrived there in 1736 and lived in Germantown for a time before moving westward.) I had even identified a small hotel within walking distance with a daily room rate of $99 (plus tax, of course). Didn't think to factor in parking fees, Dick, although I was planning to drive from metro Detroit. But when I added it all up, even without the pricey luncheons and banquet, I recall it still came to slightly over $1000. Decided it was just too pricey for this retired librarian turned active genealogist. I also support the idea of soliciting and sharing input about optional transportation, parking and lodging facilities from locals and others knowledgeable about the conference city. I have no knowledge about the rationale for selecting one conference site over another, but have to think that reduced costs in all areas would encourage greater attendance. (Isn't it time we took a stand against apparent price-gouging?) In case FGS and other conference planners are interested, my preference is for the intimacy of small and cozy over feeling lost and insigfificant in a mega-sized conference center. Despite looking forward to attending, I'm actually glad I opted out this year.

[Ann Minter]

Mr. Eastman,
Thank you for your comments. I sat with you at dinner during the Jamboree in Burbank, California and we discussed your Eastman family localities.

Because I am now retired, I will no longer get to attend conferences for the exact reasons you have stated. I thoroughly enjoy the conferences, get a lot out of, not only the presentations, but the networking I am able to accomplish while in attendance.

I want to continue attending conferences and I hope the genealogical community will seriously consider the issues that you have now put before them.

Thank you for your assistance.

Ann Minter
Member, NGS, FGS, APG, SCCAPG, SCGS, etc.

[Kay Maynard]

I agree with the comments about high costs of holding conventions in major cities, but I also want to relate a current experience in a suburban hotel where we are holding a conference for school library media specialists, another interest of mine. We definitely experienced "sticker shock" when meals were being chosen and the least expensive meal we could obtain for one event is $40.00 while the least expensive breakfast is $20.00. The hotels add tax and an 18-20% gratuity charge onto the actual meal charge up front.

In our situation, we have little choice of sites because in an attempt to assure a location we want at a cost that is less expensive to our members per room while assuring that we have sufficient space for the entire event, we contracted for the hotel a few years in advance. This is a contract that is proving very difficult to break without charging our members a huge fee.

Yes, the hotel charges a huge "chunk of change" for Internet services in both sleeping rooms and in meeting spaces, but we have no control over that unless we break the contract.

No, I'm not defending the hotels in major cities where rates are excessive and union contracts with employees may be a factor helping to increase the cost. But yes, I am defending planners who have gone to the suburbs attempting to reduce costs and still find that their members are facing huge costs and fees to attend. Costs and other things are not always easily controlled and the only way to not pay the charges is the option of staying at home which for many of us is also not a good option.

[MHunter]

I loved your article - and the comment by Kelsey about people not attending due to costs. Hear, hear!

I was in charge of a (non-genealogical) convention this past summer in DC, and went out of my way to figure out how to cut expenses. Okay, I'm Scots, but I've gone to one too many conventions which cost much too much for the information I received.

I started out by stating that the convention would be "on the fun side of the Potomac" and focused on hotels on the Metro, but in Virginia. With very little work & the help of various Visitor Centers, I found a hotel which was comprised of suites: each room had a living room, bedroom, free computer access, bathroom, and kitchen. Someone on a strict budget could easily nuke meals! Breakfasts were free, parking was free, the hotel shuttle took everyone to the Metro, and I was able to talk the hotel sales manager into a deep discount on the conference & hospitality rooms. The hotel also had TWO computer banks, for those who didn't bring their laptops, was both dog- & kid-friendly, along with the pool & putting green. The cost per room was $87/night for a single to $119/night for a two bedroom suite (with a sofabed in each living room). "Goody bags" were donated goods only - each vendor had to provide something for them. I found a recent college graduate to do the graphics for his resume, and used a discount t-shirt/tote bag printer. Everyone there was thrilled with the cost, the extras, the and after it was over, I was able to spend two luxurious days in the DAR Library - because I could afford the two extra days!

It can be done, if those pulling everything together make a conscious effort to not stay focused on what's been done in the past, to check out several venues, to think creatively, and to work with Visitor Centers. Anyone in charge of any convention has a responsibility to not "rob" the attendees!

[Jane R. Hubbard]

I used to really enjoy conferences, it reinvigorated my research, etc., etc. However the last one I attended was the HEHGS 150th year one in Boston. Then the cost became prohibitive. I am a senior citizen living on SS ($535/month). I read the announcements and wish --- but that's as close as I can get. Conferences are of particular importance to all of us "family historians", to keep us up-to-date on current methodology, resources, and all the new resources available. We lead very isolated lives!

[Hotel website design]

I agree that the costs at the hotel were exorbitant but a bit of checking produced a local garage that charged $18/day, saving $26/day from costs at parking at the Marriott.